Gulf of Oman incidents

Author
Discussion

ecsrobin

17,285 posts

167 months

Friday 12th July 2019
quotequote all
Earthdweller said:
The RN has 6 destroyers and a dozen frigates in total

I wonder how many are operational and available

My guess is not many at all
The numbers may be low but the capability of each ship must be equal to many ships 20 years ago.

Earthdweller

13,671 posts

128 months

Friday 12th July 2019
quotequote all
ecsrobin said:
Earthdweller said:
The RN has 6 destroyers and a dozen frigates in total

I wonder how many are operational and available

My guess is not many at all
The numbers may be low but the capability of each ship must be equal to many ships 20 years ago.
As is their ability to be in several places at the same time !

And there’s the small issue of the Navy having enough sailors to crew them

Oh, and engines that don’t work in warmer climes

At least in the 80’s when they had 65+Destroyers and frigates active plus 5 carriers and many others they could actually have a considerable presence

According to the web there are currently 4 actively deployed worldwide

Burwood

18,709 posts

248 months

Friday 12th July 2019
quotequote all
The US have much cooler destroyers.

Earthdweller

13,671 posts

128 months

Friday 12th July 2019
quotequote all
Burwood said:
The US have much cooler destroyers.
And they have a “thing” for oil tankers smile

Burwood

18,709 posts

248 months

Friday 12th July 2019
quotequote all
Earthdweller said:
Burwood said:
The US have much cooler destroyers.
And they have a “thing” for oil tankers smile
Manifestly unfair wink

IanH755

1,876 posts

122 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
Earthdweller said:
ecsrobin said:
Earthdweller said:
The RN has 6 destroyers and a dozen frigates in total

I wonder how many are operational and available

My guess is not many at all
The numbers may be low but the capability of each ship must be equal to many ships 20 years ago.
As is their ability to be in several places at the same time !
It also means the operational loss of just a single one (from faulty equipment to being sunk) has a much greater effect on the RN than at anytime in the past.

IanH755

1,876 posts

122 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
Countdown said:
IanH755 said:
Countdown said:
You say "problem with the JCPOA" - do you genuinely believe that ANY country (let alone Iran) is going to permanently give up the ability to build nukes when that is one of the few proven methods for not getting invaded
I believe South Africa is the only country to voluntarily go through nuclear disarmament.
My view of that is the FWdK knew what was on the horizon (in terms of the ending of Apartheid) and preferred that the new post-Apartheid regime not have access to nukes. Had the apartheid regime remained in place I doubt they would have given them up.
Yeap, I agree about FWdK's intentions, it was his fear of the oppressed blacks getting hold of the countries nukes, rather than any thoughts about the greater cause of humanity, which made him disarm.

Stan the Bat

8,985 posts

214 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
IanH755 said:
Countdown said:
IanH755 said:
Countdown said:
You say "problem with the JCPOA" - do you genuinely believe that ANY country (let alone Iran) is going to permanently give up the ability to build nukes when that is one of the few proven methods for not getting invaded
I believe South Africa is the only country to voluntarily go through nuclear disarmament.
My view of that is the FWdK knew what was on the horizon (in terms of the ending of Apartheid) and preferred that the new post-Apartheid regime not have access to nukes. Had the apartheid regime remained in place I doubt they would have given them up.
Yeap, I agree about FWdK's intentions, it was his fear of the oppressed blacks getting hold of the countries nukes, rather than any thoughts about the greater cause of humanity, which made him disarm.
So, just an opinion then?

Countdown

40,195 posts

198 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
Stan the Bat said:
So, just an opinion then?
On second thoughts I’m beginning to think the Afrikaner Govt gave up nukes as a humanitarian gesture. It’s one of the things they were renown for.......

gregs656

10,949 posts

183 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
rxe said:
The only reason they want to enrich uranium is to build nuclear weapons. It would be much cheaper to buy in fuel for reactors than go to all the effort of making it yourself. They'll only enrich it for civilian purposes blah blah, but the technology to enrich it further is the same - you spend 15 years perfecting the capability, have a healthy economy and wh-ey, in 2035 you're testing fission bombs. Actually you're probably testing fusion bombs because you just need to buy a few electric cars to get a load of lithium to wrap the fission core.

If they were serious about this the would have signed up to a treaty that said "we'll buy our reactor fuel in from (say) Russia and get them to reprocess it". Cheaper and easier. They went the other way because they want bombs.
The deal, which they were complying with, almost totally eliminated their stock of enriched uranium and severely restricted their ability to produce more.

We were in a much better place when they were complying.

Burwood

18,709 posts

248 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
gregs656 said:
rxe said:
The only reason they want to enrich uranium is to build nuclear weapons. It would be much cheaper to buy in fuel for reactors than go to all the effort of making it yourself. They'll only enrich it for civilian purposes blah blah, but the technology to enrich it further is the same - you spend 15 years perfecting the capability, have a healthy economy and wh-ey, in 2035 you're testing fission bombs. Actually you're probably testing fusion bombs because you just need to buy a few electric cars to get a load of lithium to wrap the fission core.

If they were serious about this the would have signed up to a treaty that said "we'll buy our reactor fuel in from (say) Russia and get them to reprocess it". Cheaper and easier. They went the other way because they want bombs.
The deal, which they were complying with, almost totally eliminated their stock of enriched uranium and severely restricted their ability to produce more.

We were in a much better place when they were complying.
Naive. The agreement allowed to get closer to their end game. Nuclear weapons. They have a theological imperative which many of you idealists will never understand.

gregs656

10,949 posts

183 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
Burwood said:
Naive. The agreement allowed to get closer to their end game. Nuclear weapons. They have a theological imperative which many of you idealists will never understand.
You’re going to have to explain that.

Look at what they were doing before the deal and what they were doing under the deal and tell me it wasn’t an improvement.

I am not being an idealist, you seem to have this back to front.

Countdown

40,195 posts

198 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
Burwood said:
Naive. The agreement allowed to get closer to their end game. Nuclear weapons. They have a theological imperative which many of you idealists will never understand.
No it didn’t. The JCPOA moved them back several years and stopped them making any progress. What it didn’t do was prevent them permanently from getting nukes, something they would never agree to. The only way that is going to happen is via military action, a complete replacement of the current regime and installing somebody more compliant in place. Similar to what has been achieved in Afghanistan, Libya, and Iraq.

Burwood

18,709 posts

248 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
My point stands an I agree. Regime change will come. Israel will make a strike soon is my guess.

gregs656

10,949 posts

183 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
Burwood said:
My point stands an I agree. Regime change will come. Israel will make a strike soon is my guess.
How does your point stand when it is factually incorrect? It didn’t help them at all.

And they were complying.

Burwood

18,709 posts

248 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
You read as an idealist. That’s fine. I make no judgement on that. You say ‘they comply’ and I believe they have no intention of doing so. War is coming in my opinion.

rxe

6,700 posts

105 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
gregs656 said:
The deal, which they were complying with, almost totally eliminated their stock of enriched uranium and severely restricted their ability to produce more.

We were in a much better place when they were complying.
It eliminated a great chunk of their uranium enriched to civilian grade. It allowed them to progress with enrichment technology, while growing their economy with international trade.

If they wanted civilian grade fuel to power their reactors, then this agreement makes no sense - they had it already, they could fuel reactors with it. The agreement should have said “fuel you reactors with the stuff you have, and pack in enrichment”. Instead it said “crack on with researching enrichment technology, just don’t do too much, hmmmkay”. Basically it gets them to a place where they can rapidly go to weapons grade.

They want bombs. The JCPOA gives them bombs, they just have to wait 15 years for them.

gregs656

10,949 posts

183 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
Burwood said:
You read as an idealist. That’s fine. I make no judgement on that. You say ‘they comply’ and I believe they have no intention of doing so. War is coming in my opinion.
No I am saying they were complying, then they stopped after the US pulled the plug and put sanctions on them.

It was much better when they were complying.

gregs656

10,949 posts

183 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
rxe said:
It eliminated a great chunk of their uranium enriched to civilian grade. It allowed them to progress with enrichment technology, while growing their economy with international trade.

If they wanted civilian grade fuel to power their reactors, then this agreement makes no sense - they had it already, they could fuel reactors with it. The agreement should have said “fuel you reactors with the stuff you have, and pack in enrichment”. Instead it said “crack on with researching enrichment technology, just don’t do too much, hmmmkay”. Basically it gets them to a place where they can rapidly go to weapons grade.

They want bombs. The JCPOA gives them bombs, they just have to wait 15 years for them.
It greatly limited their capacity to produce enriched uranium and rolled them back years.

If they were prepared to do this deal, why do you think they would be reluctant to do another? If they wanted to build nukes they could have carried on their program and not had to wait 15 years.

It is not unusual for these things to have a fixed term.

IanH755

1,876 posts

122 months

Saturday 13th July 2019
quotequote all
gregs656 said:
No I am saying they were complying, then they stopped after the US pulled the plug and put sanctions on them.

It was much better when they were complying.


I know it's the idealist in you which hopes that people are honest and doing what they say they are but, as has been proven time and time again, Iran desperately wants nukes as they see that as the only way they can prevent themselves being destroyed by the US and Israel, and there is no "agreement" in the world that will ever change that way of thinking for the current regime where nukes = safety!

Edited by IanH755 on Saturday 13th July 23:18