Voting as a muslim

[anonymous-user]

Pinoyuk said:

Been surrounded by Jewish clients etc .It seems just about all of them voted Brexit and would ever ever vote Labour .The Catholics ones are on the fence as usual ! But for sure the French will exit “Europe” within 3 years of us doing so .

Interesting anecdote, the Jewish clients, largely voting Brexit. Do you know why? Is there a desire for Brexit there that is not associated with worries about Labour and anti-semitism?

[anonymous-user]

EddieSteadyGo said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Comprehension and general knowledge are clearly not your strong points.

I said *some* older people are hard-of-thinking. And because a higher proportion of older people tend to vote Conservative, it follows that a portion of these people will find themselves members of the Tory party.

My suggestion is to avoid reading your own bias onto what other people write.

Would you also say that some young people are hard of thinking then?
Sorry, thinking in terms of both fluid and crystallised cognitive intelligence.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 17th November 11:44

[rdjohn]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It would be obvious to say that younger people do not have the same life experience of older voters. Who remember the winter of discontent; 3-day working week and the calling in the IMF to get public finances back on track.

New Labour seemed to have learned about “sound finances” right up until the “stuff hit the fan” in 2008 when their Treasury Secretary realised “there is no money left”.

However I know two long term Labour supporters who will not vote for them this year - one over anti-semitism, the other because, despite a clear constituency vote, their MP will not support Brexit and JC insists on sitting on the fence..

I tend to vote Conservative, but I do not believe Boris is a sound leader and has given up,on sound finance, and I have zero confidence in my constituency MP - Esther McVey.

Interesting times.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

My old Grandad was a very keen naturalist and studied wildlife all his life, he always used to say how humans were
very clever but also very stupid, and how no other creature came near the senselessness of some of their actions and beliefs.

I always remember the time he was talking about religious believers out on the hills one day and said 'When was the last time you saw a Red Deer Stag with a bible? and why is it only humans that have religion?, he had a very valid point.

I agree with the idea that we are both clever and stupid. Though I wouldn't automatically assume deer have a more fulfilling life than humans. Nor does it follow that simply reverting to animal instincts would give us the same simplicity of the life of a deer.

Story telling is probably the key difference between us and virtually every other living creature. It means we can pass on knowledge from one generation to the next. Building on and improving it as we go.

The Bible, and most religions that I know of, tend to be stories passed down the centuries which provide some insight or message that may not be available to the rational mind with limited information. Let alone the irrational mind with wrong information which has been around in great numbers for most of human history.

[768]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

I always remember the time he was talking about religious believers out on the hills one day and said 'When was the last time you saw a Red Deer Stag with a bible? and why is it only humans that have religion?, he had a very valid point.

Because only humans were created in His image.

Don't make me defend this garbage.

[gizlaroc]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Penelope Stopit said:

FazerBoy said:

There are of course people who voted Brexit who are racist

As there are people that voted remain

I don't think so. Not all Brexiteers are racists, which is pretty obvious, but all racists are Brexiteers, which is equally obvious. .


Tommy Robinson and his EDL mob...fiercely pro Brexit, all the racists down the pub, pro Brexit. All racists support Brexit.

You are absolutely deluded.


Some of the people I see posting from facebook groups I follow, from to Electronic music groups, football groups, Old School Skate and BMX groups etc., loads of them are sharing links that I would consider racist, followed by anti Brexit posts.

[james_GTI]

gizlaroc said:

You are absolutely deluded.

Of course he is, that's why he didn't try and provide any justification. It sees as though it is a desperate attempt to troll.

If you believe this survey, then almost 1 in 5 remainders are racist.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/leave-voters-ad...

I think the survey findings are flawed, but three years after they lost the referendum, some people are determined to continue with the "leave voters are racist" nonsense.

[mr_spock]

Just to come back on the whataboutery on the Conservatives and anti-Muslim sentiment...

The Labour party (by which I mean the NEC and senior figures) and their Momentum activists have actively hounded out Jewish MPs and supporters, or by inaction been complicit with that.

The Conservatives have senior Cabinet ministers who are Muslim and Hindu, the Thatcher goverment had Jewish ministers, and ethnic minority MPs have not been leaving because of anti-whatever-ism. The party seems to deal with racists very quickly and the PM offered an apology and explanation of his somewhat misquoted "letterbox" comments. Corbyn has not apologised for anything except "offence caused" which really isn't an apology, and when Ian Austin commented negatively about Corbyn, John McDonnell's response was to trot out more anti-semitic tropes.

So, IMHO, one is institutionally racist, the other has the usual percentage of racists in it and deals with them.

But again, this isn't just an issue for Jews. If you are thinking of voting Labour, what you're saying to one of the most persecuted minoritories of recent times is "I'd rather have free broadband (or whatever) and your continued persecution is a price I'm prepared to pay".

PLEASE don't vote for THIS Labour party. I'm a Brexit voter, but I'd ask you to vote Lib Dem if you don't like the Conservatives. Or, frankly, anyone else.

[Mothersruin]

The only people who really think the Tory's have Muslim issues are Labour and their supporters trying to deflect.

The same party that cry for equality yet want to keep everyone in little boxes to create division.

[EddieSteadyGo]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes.

[franki68]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

As a jewish person I am not aware of any link between voting brexit and judaism.If there is I can only think it is fear of the rise of the far right across europe and/or fear of muslim anti semitism (see France).
Certainly amongst fellow jews I know , I would say it is fairly split between remainers and brexiteers.

[Mothersruin]

fesuvious said:

Mothersruin said:

The only people who really think the Tory's have Muslim issues are Labour and their supporters trying to deflect.

The same party that cry for equality yet want to keep everyone in little boxes to create division.

Could it possibly be that Jeremy 'my friends from HAMAS' Corbyn quite deliberately has 'muslim issus' and anti semitic issues at the same time

;-)

I said earlier that Corbyn supports those that have killed more Muslims than anyone else put together.

[frisbee]

Mothersruin said:

The only people who really think the Tory's have Muslim issues are Labour and their supporters trying to deflect.

The same party that cry for equality yet want to keep everyone in little boxes to create division.

Excellent, so they'll sack the buffoon who wrote the offensive letterbox nonsense then?

[Mothersruin]

frisbee said:

Mothersruin said:

The only people who really think the Tory's have Muslim issues are Labour and their supporters trying to deflect.

The same party that cry for equality yet want to keep everyone in little boxes to create division.

Excellent, so they'll sack the buffoon who wrote the offensive letterbox nonsense then?

In the piece supporting their right to wear offensive clothing? Until they get their blasphemy laws passsed into law, he has the right to criticise as much as they have the right to wear it. Until then...

Or does their offence trump others?

[anonymous-user]

EddieSteadyGo said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes.

The young lean towards the other parties don't they, on the whole?

So there's likely more young thickos supporting Labour and the Lib Dems than there are supporting the Tories. I assume you'd accept this follows the same thought process as your argument about old people and eventually renders your point ineffective.

[anonymous-user]

franki68 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

As a jewish person I am not aware of any link between voting brexit and judaism.If there is I can only think it is fear of the rise of the far right across europe and/or fear of muslim anti semitism (see France).
Certainly amongst fellow jews I know , I would say it is fairly split between remainers and brexiteers.

So likely, on average, just like the typical non-Jewish Brit.
Perhaps his Jewish clients tend to be from a certain neighbourhood or industry and therefore it's not a religion or ethnicity thing but purely socio-economic, moving in certain circles/networks and that kinda jazz.

[Gary C]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Gary C said:

For may religion brings wars, sexual abuse, misery, death.

We need to grow up.

Problem with many religions, they were an expression of control, disguised.

I don't think religion invented these things. They are an unfortunate aspect of human nature. Religion is a system of control, and it is open to abuse but so is any system of control.

Abolishing one system of control does not mean we will have no system of control, and abolishing all systems of control does not necessarily mean we will all become rational humanists living happily together.

Oh, your right of course. 'Religion' encompasses many things from usurping belief systems to the religion of money, but the organised 'faith' religions have proved to be the easiest way to manipulate.

But your right again, we aren't going to change.

[Pinoyuk]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Its not a religious belief etc. The just happen to be Jews and love Brexit .They see over the heads of the small minded people screwed up into little balls frightened about leaving Europe. The Jews have a good resilience and ability to move around or forward when faced with a issue .They will do well.

[Teddy Lop]

Pinoyuk said:

Its not a religious belief etc. The just happen to be Jews and love Brexit .They see over the heads of the small minded people screwed up into little balls frightened about leaving Europe. The Jews have a good resilience and ability to move around or forward when faced with a issue .They will do well.

Historically the Jews have tended to fare quite badly under collectivist regimes.

[anonymous-user]

Pinoyuk said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Its not a religious belief etc. The just happen to be Jews and love Brexit .They see over the heads of the small minded people screwed up into little balls frightened about leaving Europe. The Jews have a good resilience and ability to move around or forward when faced with a issue .They will do well.

Does your work bring you into contact with particularly rich, poor or average income Jews, or a real mix?
Are you sure it's a Jewish thing? Could it be that the area you work in is generally Brexit oriented?
Not calling you or Frankie out, you could both be right and I have nothing particularly anecdotal to add to that specific discussion, only able to ask questions, really.

Interesting point below yours about Jews suffering under certain political structures.
I don't personally feel that Brexiteers are generally saying "Brexit because of or to get rid of Muslims or Jews". We went through that EDL malarkey, I know, but aren't certain European countries having much more of a problem with political and physical attacks on Jews and Muslims? If I followed one of those religions then a feeling of where the phobia is springing up and who is driving it would be a factor in my decision to leave or remain.
It'd sway me towards leave, as things are and have been for the past few years on the continent.