So what now for the Labour party?
Discussion
TorqueVR said:
I agree 100%. The Tories are so out of touch they got an 80 seat majority with millions of Labour voters!!
If you look at the numbers the Conservatives didn't gain that many.It was more a case that the alternatives were worse !
Plus they were the obvious choice to keep Corbyn out and for the Leave voters
Next election when Brexit (hopefully) isn't an issue and Corbyn isn't an option, it will be much closer
230TE said:
LetsTryAgain said:
Why any genuine conservative still faithfully votes Conservative is beyond me.
Well, actually, it ins't. Its tribalism. But hey ho.
OK, I'll bite. Define "genuine conservative". Well, actually, it ins't. Its tribalism. But hey ho.
Frank7 said:
I’m glad that you asked, it seems such a far out statement to me, but I thought, “Is there something subtle in there that I missed?”
I will take guess that the postet either thinks that Thatcher was akin to the second coming of Christ or that true Conservatives are socially conservative as well.230TE said:
OK, I'll bite. Define "genuine conservative".
Adjective: conservative1. Averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values.
Because they aren't conservative. They're a left wing party.
And no, Thatcher wasn't conservative either.
She did little to advance social or moral conservatism.
Edited by LetsTryAgain on Monday 16th December 07:23
LetsTryAgain said:
230TE said:
OK, I'll bite. Define "genuine conservative".
Adjective: conservative1. Averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values.
Because they aren't conservative. They're a left wing party.
And no, Thatcher wasn't conservative either.
She did little to advance social or moral conservatism.
Edited by LetsTryAgain on Monday 16th December 07:23
Anyone else listening to the 5 Live 'phone in this morning? It's discussing what is next for Labour. Some people get it, including Stephen Kinnock, but others are in denial. "Voters are stupid" said one. "The policies are correct" maintains another. "The media are biased against the left, including the BBC", and "Boris should have had more scrutiny than Jeremy" asserted another Labour denier.
I'm thinking that Labour will present the same policies next time, hoping that the "stupid" electorate will understand eventually.
I'm thinking that Labour will present the same policies next time, hoping that the "stupid" electorate will understand eventually.
Brave Fart said:
Anyone else listening to the 5 Live 'phone in this morning? It's discussing what is next for Labour. Some people get it, including Stephen Kinnock, but others are in denial. "Voters are stupid" said one. "The policies are correct" maintains another. "The media are biased against the left, including the BBC", and "Boris should have had more scrutiny than Jeremy" asserted another Labour denier.
I'm thinking that Labour will present the same policies next time, hoping that the "stupid" electorate will understand eventually.
I did, and if I were a 'true blue' Conservative I'd be laughing my socks off.I'm thinking that Labour will present the same policies next time, hoping that the "stupid" electorate will understand eventually.
However, as someone who would like a credible opposition party rather than a bunch of loons I find it a bit sad.
Until they come back towards the centre left they will never be electable again, unless the Conservatives spectacularly mess up.
They are stuffed. With all the new members, who are so corbyn centric, they will almost certainly elect the likes of a RLB/Burgon dream team, ignoring the fact they are unelectable with them at the helm, so they can carry on upholding the legacy of Corbyn & McDonnell which is to be nasty, inflexible, bitter, permanent protestors
The wider net of labour/possible labour voters would presumably love a Jess Philips type, but that means overcoming two problems. Firstly, how do you overcome the membership to get here elected. Secondly if they did, tories under Boris will probably occupy the centreground for some while now, so where will the major points of differentiation be ? Corbyn supporters may say recent labour policies aren't that radical and Boris' tories are hard right scum, but the wider voting electorate simply aren't that stupid
The wider net of labour/possible labour voters would presumably love a Jess Philips type, but that means overcoming two problems. Firstly, how do you overcome the membership to get here elected. Secondly if they did, tories under Boris will probably occupy the centreground for some while now, so where will the major points of differentiation be ? Corbyn supporters may say recent labour policies aren't that radical and Boris' tories are hard right scum, but the wider voting electorate simply aren't that stupid
Local elections are due in May, it will be interesting to see how many red wards turn blue then and will settle whether or not Brexit or Corbyn was behind Labour's collapse.
Guardian today reporting that they are aiming to have a new leader in place by the end of March. Given the contest is already turning bitter and Labour is set up and governed like a public body, it wouldn't take much for that deadline to slip and still have a leadership contest in full swing in the middle of the Locals.
Guardian today reporting that they are aiming to have a new leader in place by the end of March. Given the contest is already turning bitter and Labour is set up and governed like a public body, it wouldn't take much for that deadline to slip and still have a leadership contest in full swing in the middle of the Locals.
They seem to be all out blaming Corbyn himself now but I don't buy that, if it was entirely his fault then what happened in 2017?
Clearly the problem is partly Corbyn being utterly crap in his Andrew Neil and other interviews, but also a combination of the lack of a labour position on Brexit, the unaffordable see-thru magic money tree giveaway, the threat of McDonnell taking everyone's hard earned stuff and money away, the ludicrously nasty campaign on twitter and other social media directly by Labour and their acolytes, and the terrible shadow cabinet such as Abbott and Crayons. Also I suspect the general public see things like their Party Conference earlier in the year, which receive greater coverage these days, and just think "W.T.F.".
Heard a rumour that Corbyn will try to hang around until May to try to help Sadiq Khan get re-elected as London Mayor in May but not sure they can stretch it out that long, also not sure Corbyn will be that much of a help to Khan.
It does appear that they are going to try very hard to elect a woman leader, mostly "just because", as Labour is actually now the only UK party that hasn't already had a woman leader. I don't really care which one they go with, all of the contenders will be entertaining!
Clearly the problem is partly Corbyn being utterly crap in his Andrew Neil and other interviews, but also a combination of the lack of a labour position on Brexit, the unaffordable see-thru magic money tree giveaway, the threat of McDonnell taking everyone's hard earned stuff and money away, the ludicrously nasty campaign on twitter and other social media directly by Labour and their acolytes, and the terrible shadow cabinet such as Abbott and Crayons. Also I suspect the general public see things like their Party Conference earlier in the year, which receive greater coverage these days, and just think "W.T.F.".
Heard a rumour that Corbyn will try to hang around until May to try to help Sadiq Khan get re-elected as London Mayor in May but not sure they can stretch it out that long, also not sure Corbyn will be that much of a help to Khan.
It does appear that they are going to try very hard to elect a woman leader, mostly "just because", as Labour is actually now the only UK party that hasn't already had a woman leader. I don't really care which one they go with, all of the contenders will be entertaining!
LetsTryAgain said:
TorqueVR said:
I agree 100%. The Tories are so out of touch they got an 80 seat majority with millions of Labour voters!!
Why any genuine conservative still faithfully votes Conservative is beyond me. Well, actually, it ins't. Its tribalism. But hey ho.
Labour too had what could be considered to be quite a radical manifesto so they also represented a vote for change. For me the Lib Dem had the most sensible and moderate policies, more akin to the Conservative party of days gone by, I see there opposition to brexit as being more pro-business than the current Conservatives.
kev1974 said:
It does appear that they are going to try very hard to elect a woman leader, mostly "just because"
^^^ This type of attitude by the Left is why I despise them - the best person should get the job.If there are never any women, disabled, minority etc that are the best people for the job you need to ask yourself why and possibly change that - NOT insist on giving the job to them regardless.
kev1974 said:
They seem to be all out blaming Corbyn himself now but I don't buy that, if it was entirely his fault then what happened in 2017?
Clearly the problem is partly Corbyn being utterly crap in his Andrew Neil and other interviews, but also a combination of the lack of a labour position on Brexit, the unaffordable see-thru magic money tree giveaway, the threat of McDonnell taking everyone's hard earned stuff and money away, the ludicrously nasty campaign on twitter and other social media directly by Labour and their acolytes, and the terrible shadow cabinet such as Abbott and Crayons. Also I suspect the general public see things like their Party Conference earlier in the year, which receive greater coverage these days, and just think "W.T.F.".
Heard a rumour that Corbyn will try to hang around until May to try to help Sadiq Khan get re-elected as London Mayor in May but not sure they can stretch it out that long, also not sure Corbyn will be that much of a help to Khan.
It does appear that they are going to try very hard to elect a woman leader, mostly "just because", as Labour is actually now the only UK party that hasn't already had a woman leader. I don't really care which one they go with, all of the contenders will be entertaining!
Absolutely. Thatcher, May, Swinson, the wee Krankie.......there may have been some appeal to voters in leadership elections to appoint a woman, but ultimately, they were all voted to lead because they were the best candidateClearly the problem is partly Corbyn being utterly crap in his Andrew Neil and other interviews, but also a combination of the lack of a labour position on Brexit, the unaffordable see-thru magic money tree giveaway, the threat of McDonnell taking everyone's hard earned stuff and money away, the ludicrously nasty campaign on twitter and other social media directly by Labour and their acolytes, and the terrible shadow cabinet such as Abbott and Crayons. Also I suspect the general public see things like their Party Conference earlier in the year, which receive greater coverage these days, and just think "W.T.F.".
Heard a rumour that Corbyn will try to hang around until May to try to help Sadiq Khan get re-elected as London Mayor in May but not sure they can stretch it out that long, also not sure Corbyn will be that much of a help to Khan.
It does appear that they are going to try very hard to elect a woman leader, mostly "just because", as Labour is actually now the only UK party that hasn't already had a woman leader. I don't really care which one they go with, all of the contenders will be entertaining!
Labour are embarrassed because the party of equality has a couple of middle aged, white, rich men leading them.
Whilst I'm sure you're right with your 'just because' argument, as it happens most of the best contenders for leading the labour party today are women. Starmer is about the only bloke you would put up there, unless you include Burgon, which given labour's AS problems and the presence of THAT Burgon video, would be utterly hilarious
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/emily-tho...
Thornberry vs Flint now over calling voters stupid row.
Thornberry vs Flint now over calling voters stupid row.
biggbn said:
I am fairly socialist in my thought and would like the Labour Party to remain a genuine alternative...but...that burgon fella has liability written all over him.
It's amazing that you can be caught lying through your teeth and still stay on in frontline politics.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47952275
Quite hard for him to attack Boris on dishonesty after that performance.
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