Would you install and use an NHS Covid tracking app?

[Goaty Bill 2]

pip t said:

I heard that, but I wouldn't read too much into it. Whenever more complicated tech subjects hit politics (The encryption debate for example) it becomes abundantly clear most politicians have pretty much zero understanding of how these things actually work (Which is kinda understandable). When they talk about it, particularly in a pressurised situation like an interview, they pretty often come up with turns of phrase that aren't accurate.

Agreed that aspect is somewhat understandable, but that so many of them fail to comprehend the social and political implications of the tech being discussed is truly worrying.
That is supposed to within be their area of expertise.

[Zirconia]

Bit more info with Apple and Google with an added document from Apple on the ins and outs.
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/04/24/apple-and-goo...
Looks quite tight.

[pip t]

Zirconia said:

Bit more info with Apple and Google with an added document from Apple on the ins and outs.
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/04/24/apple-and-goo...
Looks quite tight.

Thanks again - you're better at spotting the news on this than I appear to be!

article said:

As a result of feedback from officials around the world, Apple and Google today have disclosed a series of changes to their upcoming COVID-19 contract tracing initiative, with a focus on even stronger privacy protections and accuracy.

Indeed, it does seem very tightly done. It appears the response to officials pressing for more data is.....an even tighter system

It does seem a very elegant solution. There's still the issues around the accuracy of the use of bluetooth - the system does use RSSI for judging proximity which is not the most accurate thing in the world - but in terms of user privacy, if implemented as specified, it could be a very privacy friendly way of doing this.

Time will tell what NHSX comes up with.....!

[oilit]

Everyone should watch 'the big hack' then answer this question.

I think I read that the NHS is already selling/giving anonymised (by how much we don't know) data on covid to a US company for statistics purposes - so read up on the patriot act also..

I wouldn't trust trump with my excrement - let alone anything else remotely valuable or sensitive.

NO THANKS

[Zirconia]

pip t said:

Thanks again - you're better at spotting the news on this than I appear to be!

Sniffing after reviews on the new SE and top story.

[Bristol ave fag]

Big brother cant own your ass fully till they know where it is all the time.
Put me down for a no

[Zirconia]

Marr having some people on the show today in relation to this app. Meanwhile.
https://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/12541669...
Same Twitter feed in a thread reader form
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/125416690569230...
App mentioned as part of a plan, if someone with more ability can scan this. It does say not peer reviewed yet.

[Not-The-Messiah]

Zirconia said:

Marr having some people on the show today in relation to this app. Meanwhile.
https://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/12541669...
Same Twitter feed in a thread reader form
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/125416690569230...
App mentioned as part of a plan, if someone with more ability can scan this. It does say not peer reviewed yet.

So 140,000 to 390,000 people every day would need to be quarantined each day for 14 day that's up to 5 and half million people constantly quarantined until we get a vaccine. Plus all the millions of vulnerable and elderly that will need to remain quarantined the entire time.

Does any of these plans take any economic implications into affect, from what I see they don't seem to.

[Not-The-Messiah]

So have I got this right? The app works off Bluetooth and tracks every other phone you come near to.

If someone decides they have a cough who you walked past a week ago in a shop, you will get a message telling you that you will now need to isolate for 2 weeks?
Sod that looks like my Bluetooth will be getting turned off.

Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Sunday 26th April 12:52

[M4cruiser]

I have a Windows phone, so I don't have to make the choice!!
Yippee.

I wonder if the Government will ban Windows phones now?

[bitchstewie]

M4cruiser said:

I have a Windows phone, so I don't have to make the choice!!
Yippee.

I wonder if the Government will ban Windows phones now?

Probably not worth the cost of the legislation just to deal with all 5 of you

[zarjaz_]

Not-The-Messiah said:

So have I got this right? The app works off Bluetooth and tracks every other phone you come near to.

If someone decides they have a cough who you walked past a week ago in a shop, you will get a message telling you that you will now need to isolate for 2 weeks?
Sod that looks like my Bluetooth will be getting turned off.

Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Sunday 26th April 12:52

I read talk that only confirmed tested cases would lead to you being told to actually isolate.

People who just get a cough would result in you being warned to be more careful about social distancing.

I don't think any of this is confirmed at this stage, but it would certainly make sense, or else you'd just have lockdown again as everyone would be isolated within days.

[Mr Whippy]

Not-The-Messiah said:

Zirconia said:

Marr having some people on the show today in relation to this app. Meanwhile.
https://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/12541669...
Same Twitter feed in a thread reader form
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/125416690569230...
App mentioned as part of a plan, if someone with more ability can scan this. It does say not peer reviewed yet.

So 140,000 to 390,000 people every day would need to be quarantined each day for 14 day that's up to 5 and half million people constantly quarantined until we get a vaccine. Plus all the millions of vulnerable and elderly that will need to remain quarantined the entire time.

Does any of these plans take any economic implications into affect, from what I see they don't seem to.

Or just quarantine the vulnerable and elderly, and let everyone else get it in a controlled manner?

Having ~ 60 million people ‘waiting’ for a vaccine for a few million is retarded.

[Jasandjules]

Mr Whippy said:

Having ~ 60 million people ‘waiting’ for a vaccine for a few million is retarded.

Current information seems to suggest two issues:

1. They can't make a vaccine that works without killing the host or rendering you significantly more susceptible to contract it or other disease nor is there any evidence it works to prevent
2. It could be a year away. The country would be bankrupt or rioting before then, with suicides rocketing

[paulrockliffe]

Jasandjules said:

Mr Whippy said:

Having ~ 60 million people ‘waiting’ for a vaccine for a few million is retarded.

Current information seems to suggest two issues:

1. They can't make a vaccine that works without killing the host or rendering you significantly more susceptible to contract it or other disease nor is there any evidence it works to prevent
2. It could be a year away. The country would be bankrupt or rioting before then, with suicides rocketing

That and there aren't any vaccines for any Corona viruses, despite decades of research, so why now?

[zarjaz_]

paulrockliffe said:

That and there aren't any vaccines for any Corona viruses, despite decades of research, so why now?

To be fair that's partly because we haven't really tried, at least not on the scale, and not with the urgency and funding, as now.

[paulrockliffe]

zarjaz_ said:

paulrockliffe said:

That and there aren't any vaccines for any Corona viruses, despite decades of research, so why now?

To be fair that's partly because we haven't really tried, at least not on the scale, and not with the urgency and funding, as now.

That could be true, but there's now way of knowing whether it's just a case of throwing more resource at the problem or whether it's simply a few order of magnitudes more difficult than we're capable of at the moment.

[pip t]

Not-The-Messiah said:

So have I got this right? The app works off Bluetooth and tracks every other phone you come near to.

If someone decides they have a cough who you walked past a week ago in a shop, you will get a message telling you that you will now need to isolate for 2 weeks?
Sod that looks like my Bluetooth will be getting turned off.

Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Sunday 26th April 12:52

You've got the principle of it right, yes. Given the app is going to be (apparently) voluntary though, no need to turn your bluetooth off, just don't download the app. Eventually they're going to bake the system into Android/ iOS, but even that will be opt-in, so unless you turn the functionality on, you can still use bluetooth without it. Just having your bluetooth on won't auto-enrol you into anything.

zarjaz_ said:

I read talk that only confirmed tested cases would lead to you being told to actually isolate.

People who just get a cough would result in you being warned to be more careful about social distancing.

I don't think any of this is confirmed at this stage, but it would certainly make sense, or else you'd just have lockdown again as everyone would be isolated within days.

Indeed - the theory being kicked around is two levels of notification. Orange if someone's self declared they have C19, which will inform you, but largely leave to your judgement what action you should take, and Red if someone's tested positive to C19, which would require you to isolate. Any of this may obviously change when they finally decide on how this works.

[pip t]

Interestingly, Germany has now done a bit of a u-turn and abandoned it's home grown centralised app to go for the decentralised Apple/ Google type system. Be interesting to see if other governments (Including our own!) follow suit....

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavi...

article said:

“We will back a decentralized architecture that will only store contacts on devices. That is good for trust,” Braun told ARD public television in an interview.

Edited by pip t on Sunday 26th April 14:39

[Carl_Manchester]

Zirconia said:

Bit more info with Apple and Google with an added document from Apple on the ins and outs.
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/04/24/apple-and-goo...
Looks quite tight.

Made by people in a social bubble who walk to work from their $1m apartments and spend their time drinking overpriced almond wet lattes in coffee shops.

In the real world, man walks onto northern line and is, in all mathematical probability immediately exposed to either a virus carrier or, the virus smeared to the inside of the train what then, all half a million people who used the line on that day get pinged, traced and tested before they are able to make another journey ? and how will the app differentiate between those on the underground on the train and those you passed at street level ?

Honestly, i think government and tech companies live in a parallel reality.

Edited by Carl_Manchester on Sunday 26th April 14:43