"Firms wary about hiring public sector staff"
Discussion
rs1952 said:
Clearly our experiences are different.
Mine is that Parkinson's Law applies as much to meetings as normal work. The sort of meetings I arrange are usually those where I've produced a report on ABC and I want agreement on the action that I have taken, or the subsequent course of action. Schedule a meeting at, say, 1030 and, as sure as eggs is eggs, anybody who really has anything concrete to add has thought it through before the meeting and will bring it up early on. By 1130 all the "good stuff" has been discussed, but there are those which will bring up issues that are irrelevant or easily countered, and they will "take the floor" later making sure that you're stuck in the room until lunch time.
Schedule a meeting late in the day and you only get the "juicy" critiicisms/ objections. Those who would normally bring up the trivial stuff are usually looking at the watches and keeping schtum.
This latter group are the kids waiting for home time
Fair enough Mine is that Parkinson's Law applies as much to meetings as normal work. The sort of meetings I arrange are usually those where I've produced a report on ABC and I want agreement on the action that I have taken, or the subsequent course of action. Schedule a meeting at, say, 1030 and, as sure as eggs is eggs, anybody who really has anything concrete to add has thought it through before the meeting and will bring it up early on. By 1130 all the "good stuff" has been discussed, but there are those which will bring up issues that are irrelevant or easily countered, and they will "take the floor" later making sure that you're stuck in the room until lunch time.
Schedule a meeting late in the day and you only get the "juicy" critiicisms/ objections. Those who would normally bring up the trivial stuff are usually looking at the watches and keeping schtum.
This latter group are the kids waiting for home time
I can see where you're coming from. In my team I guess I'm fortunate in that the majority of us would rather be doing our jobs rather than sitting in meetings but accept they are a necessary evil for the purposes of informing, reviewing, and tasking. You always get the odd couple of people who like the sound of their own voice but peer pressure seems to keep a lid on them.
I heard a great one from one of my staff from one of our clients yesterday. The client is an IT tech support company, so some staff are in early, 0600 in fact. They share their office building with a public sector organisation - part of the justice system so a very secure office.
First IT guys in yesterday found that there was a power cut in their building, but the trip switches are inside the pub sec office downstairs. Building landlord was not able to give access to the pub sec office due to their extra security systems.
They managed eventually to contact someone at the pub sec organisation to be told that the key holder (like everyone else) didn't start until exactly 0900, so they'd all have to wait until then.
"Can't she come in even a bit early this once?"
"No."
"Please? Not even half an hour?"
"No."
"Can you ask her?"
"No."
So they all sat there for three hours twiddling their thumbs until the key holder ambled in at 0859.
First IT guys in yesterday found that there was a power cut in their building, but the trip switches are inside the pub sec office downstairs. Building landlord was not able to give access to the pub sec office due to their extra security systems.
They managed eventually to contact someone at the pub sec organisation to be told that the key holder (like everyone else) didn't start until exactly 0900, so they'd all have to wait until then.
"Can't she come in even a bit early this once?"
"No."
"Please? Not even half an hour?"
"No."
"Can you ask her?"
"No."
So they all sat there for three hours twiddling their thumbs until the key holder ambled in at 0859.
Johnnytheboy said:
I heard a great one from one of my staff from one of our clients yesterday. The client is an IT tech support company, so some staff are in early, 0600 in fact. They share their office building with a public sector organisation - part of the justice system so a very secure office.
First IT guys in yesterday found that there was a power cut in their building, but the trip switches are inside the pub sec office downstairs. Building landlord was not able to give access to the pub sec office due to their extra security systems.
They managed eventually to contact someone at the pub sec organisation to be told that the key holder (like everyone else) didn't start until exactly 0900, so they'd all have to wait until then.
"Can't she come in even a bit early this once?"
"No."
"Please? Not even half an hour?"
"No."
"Can you ask her?"
"No."
So they all sat there for three hours twiddling their thumbs until the key holder ambled in at 0859.
Not just a public sector problem. I had a temp job delivering metal, I went to a small industrial unit with an urgent delivery, unfortunately during their lunch break. Nobody could be bothered to spend 5 minutes handballing the stuff off the back and it was too heavy for me to do on my own. Unfortunately by the time they had finished lunch I was on my tacho break so they all had to wait. I would normally have driven off and left them to explain why the urgent delivery was refused but it was the only thing left on the back and I was feeling generous First IT guys in yesterday found that there was a power cut in their building, but the trip switches are inside the pub sec office downstairs. Building landlord was not able to give access to the pub sec office due to their extra security systems.
They managed eventually to contact someone at the pub sec organisation to be told that the key holder (like everyone else) didn't start until exactly 0900, so they'd all have to wait until then.
"Can't she come in even a bit early this once?"
"No."
"Please? Not even half an hour?"
"No."
"Can you ask her?"
"No."
So they all sat there for three hours twiddling their thumbs until the key holder ambled in at 0859.
wolves_wanderer said:
Not just a public sector problem. I had a temp job delivering metal, I went to a small industrial unit with an urgent delivery, unfortunately during their lunch break. Nobody could be bothered to spend 5 minutes handballing the stuff off the back and it was too heavy for me to do on my own. Unfortunately by the time they had finished lunch I was on my tacho break so they all had to wait. I would normally have driven off and left them to explain why the urgent delivery was refused but it was the only thing left on the back and I was feeling generous
All goods in staff are like that, I don't know how they live with themselves. We used to have a guy at this place (ex-copper, funnily enough) who used to take his lunchbreak in his car. If a delivery came in he'd just sit in his car making himself as small as possible. He was also in charge of health and safety, so we'd wait until he was on lunch then do really unsafe things (in his eyes) right in front of his car to see if we could lure him out.
Johnnytheboy said:
We used to have a guy at this place (ex-copper, funnily enough) who used to take his lunchbreak in his car. If a delivery came in he'd just sit in his car making himself as small as possible. He was also in charge of health and safety, so we'd wait until he was on lunch then do really unsafe things (in his eyes) right in front of his car to see if we could lure him out.
I'm visualising Jimmy's Food Factory type experiments being put on in front of his car. 
rs1952 said:
Clearly our experiences are different.
Mine is that Parkinson's Law applies as much to meetings as normal work. The sort of meetings I arrange are usually those where I've produced a report on ABC and I want agreement on the action that I have taken, or the subsequent course of action. Schedule a meeting at, say, 1030 and, as sure as eggs is eggs, anybody who really has anything concrete to add has thought it through before the meeting and will bring it up early on. By 1130 all the "good stuff" has been discussed, but there are those which will bring up issues that are irrelevant or easily countered, and they will "take the floor" later making sure that you're stuck in the room until lunch time.
Schedule a meeting late in the day and you only get the "juicy" criticisms/ objections. Those who would normally bring up the trivial stuff are usually looking at the watches and keeping schtum.
This latter group are the kids waiting for home time
Alternatively, just book a meeting for any time you want, but make sure the meeting room you're going to use has been booked by someone else from whenever you want your meeting finished by. Get the important stuff done, then apologise to the timewasters when you get kickout out of the room that there's not time for their bit.Mine is that Parkinson's Law applies as much to meetings as normal work. The sort of meetings I arrange are usually those where I've produced a report on ABC and I want agreement on the action that I have taken, or the subsequent course of action. Schedule a meeting at, say, 1030 and, as sure as eggs is eggs, anybody who really has anything concrete to add has thought it through before the meeting and will bring it up early on. By 1130 all the "good stuff" has been discussed, but there are those which will bring up issues that are irrelevant or easily countered, and they will "take the floor" later making sure that you're stuck in the room until lunch time.
Schedule a meeting late in the day and you only get the "juicy" criticisms/ objections. Those who would normally bring up the trivial stuff are usually looking at the watches and keeping schtum.
This latter group are the kids waiting for home time
Johnnytheboy said:
I heard a great one from one of my staff from one of our clients yesterday. The client is an IT tech support company, so some staff are in early, 0600 in fact. They share their office building with a public sector organisation - part of the justice system so a very secure office.
First IT guys in yesterday found that there was a power cut in their building, but the trip switches are inside the pub sec office downstairs. Building landlord was not able to give access to the pub sec office due to their extra security systems.
They managed eventually to contact someone at the pub sec organisation to be told that the key holder (like everyone else) didn't start until exactly 0900, so they'd all have to wait until then.
"Can't she come in even a bit early this once?"
"No."
"Please? Not even half an hour?"
"No."
"Can you ask her?"
"No."
So they all sat there for three hours twiddling their thumbs until the key holder ambled in at 0859.
It seems a bit short-sighted for an IT Support co to site themselves in a building without easy access to Switch rooms....First IT guys in yesterday found that there was a power cut in their building, but the trip switches are inside the pub sec office downstairs. Building landlord was not able to give access to the pub sec office due to their extra security systems.
They managed eventually to contact someone at the pub sec organisation to be told that the key holder (like everyone else) didn't start until exactly 0900, so they'd all have to wait until then.
"Can't she come in even a bit early this once?"
"No."
"Please? Not even half an hour?"
"No."
"Can you ask her?"
"No."
So they all sat there for three hours twiddling their thumbs until the key holder ambled in at 0859.
MonkeyHanger said:
It seems a bit short-sighted for an IT Support co to site themselves in a building without easy access to Switch rooms....
That's not the point. A public servant who should be sympathetic to the needs of the companies and people that pay their wages couldn't be contacted to help a taxpayer out.Just about sums the UK up really.
tinman0 said:
A public servant who should be sympathetic to the needs of the companies and people that pay their wages couldn't be contacted to help a taxpayer out.
By the same logic should NEXT be expected to open up earlier because "I pay their wages"? Public Sector wokrers get paid to do a job, just because they're "public sector" doesn't mean that they should be "extra grateful" to every taxpayer they deal with.With regards to the example given there could be umpteen reason why he/she couldn't open up any earlier. Seems unfair to label him/her a jobsworth without knowing the full story.
"A failure to plan on your part doesn't necessarily constitute an emergency on my part"
And, FWIW, if that had been one of our buildings, one of the 3 out-of-hours emergency keyholders would have been contacted to open up,and the landlord should be aware of who these people are.
tinman0 said:
That's not the point. A public servant who should be sympathetic to the needs of the companies and people that pay their wages couldn't be contacted to help a taxpayer out.
Just about sums the UK up really.
Careful.... a servant will be along to admonish you. Just about sums the UK up really.
It's possible to find examples of extraordinary incompetence/laziness in public and private sectors. But I don't buy the argument that citing an example of stupidity/laziness in the private sector may somehow justify, or balance, examples of it in the public sector.
Lazy berks get fired for being lazy berks in the private sector - they either stay put, get promoted or get bumper payoffs in the public sector.
The notion, and meaning, of "earning a living" is becoming increasingly abstract to a disturbing proportion of the population. This is the main reason why private enterprise is absolutely correct to be wary of former public sector folk.
Countdown said:
By the same logic should NEXT be expected to open up earlier because "I pay their wages"? Public Sector wokrers get paid to do a job, just because they're "public sector" doesn't mean that they should be "extra grateful" to every taxpayer they deal with.
And there we have it... Retailers compete for, and are thankful, for the public's custom. Tosspots in the public sector aren't subject to the same needs to serve at all.
NEXT stores are open long hours to serve a public that is not obliged to visit those stores. Compare that with the close-early, rarely-answer-the-phone public sector dross for which the public has no option but to suffer!
bosscerbera said:
Countdown said:
By the same logic should NEXT be expected to open up earlier because "I pay their wages"? Public Sector wokrers get paid to do a job, just because they're "public sector" doesn't mean that they should be "extra grateful" to every taxpayer they deal with.
And there we have it... Retailers compete for, and are thankful, for the public's custom. Tosspots in the public sector aren't subject to the same needs to serve at all.
NEXT stores are open long hours to serve a public that is not obliged to visit those stores. Compare that with the close-early, rarely-answer-the-phone public sector dross for which the public has no option but to suffer!
Countdown said:
You're absolutely right. This person should ensure he is available for work 3 hours early every day because he's public sector. Being public sector means that you should be at the beck and call of every member of the private sector at all times.
No, whether public sector - or private sector - you have a duty to your paymasters. And don't be thinking that's the 'manager' - in the private sector top of the pyramid is customer not chairman. The public sector has insulated itself from stakeholder accountabilities which is why dross is attracted to it and can survive, even prosper, in it.
bosscerbera said:
Countdown said:
You're absolutely right. This person should ensure he is available for work 3 hours early every day because he's public sector. Being public sector means that you should be at the beck and call of every member of the private sector at all times.
No, whether public sector - or private sector - you have a duty to your paymasters. And don't be thinking that's the 'manager' - in the private sector top of the pyramid is customer not chairman. The public sector has insulated itself from stakeholder accountabilities which is why dross is attracted to it and can survive, even prosper, in it.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Whic is fair enough. In my current and previous posts Senior managers are always on-call out of hours. So, for property related issues the call out order would beSite manager
Me (Senior Manager with site responsibility)
Chief exec
Depending on the severity of the situation. Our landlord knows this - its in his best interests, especially if the sprinklers go off or there's a water leak. In the example given its easy to blame the worker whereas the IT people and the landlord need to be looking at their own processes.
Countdown said:
Depending on the severity of the situation. Our landlord knows this - its in his best interests, especially if the sprinklers go off or there's a water leak. In the example given its easy to blame the worker whereas the IT people and the landlord need to be looking at their own processes.
Perfectly encapsulated mindset."...looking at their own processes" - what a load of old b
ks. Just open the f
king door, it's an emergency. FFS, how hard can it be? Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff