Elite Tax Haven Details Leaked
Discussion
Burwood said:
fblm said:
Zed 44 said:
...their fair share of tax...
Oh godEdited by anonymous-user on Thursday 9th November 22:19
Zed 44 said:
Shock horror, ordinary people take umbrage when the super rich and corporations steal from them by not paying their fair share of tax. You do sometimes get the impression on threads like this that there are a load of Poujadists driving around in Vauxhall Corsas with cannonball exhaust pipes thinking the government wants them to pull their trousers down.
PS. One for the spelling police. It's "governments"
Or, to argue the numbers the other way, it’s the poor who don’t pay their fair share. Over half of all households take out more than they pay in, while the top 1% of earners pay 30% of income tax despite only taking 14% of all of the wages.PS. One for the spelling police. It's "governments"
Alpinestars said:
If it's legal, and you pay me enough, I'll provide you a structure 
.
. 
- stays on here mind... don't want anyone to know..Alpinestars said:
PE failures usually result in the PE fund losing out, as the shareholder and least secured creditor.
Maybe, i was reading about the terra firms / four seasons debacle this morning.
Also recently read the suggestions that greybull will eventually come out on top of the monarch collapse.
Edited by edh on Thursday 9th November 21:47
Size Nine Elm said:
Example in the current papers includes property, but wrapped up in a Jersey Unit Trust. The property never changes hands, so no tax to be paid - just units in the trust bought and sold.
The trust is itself totally artificial, but meets all relevant tax laws, so no tax is payable...
One thing I don't undrerstand about the EBTs - they have obviously been abused for tax (evasion/avoidance) [delete as appropriate], but what ever was the legitimate intended use of them?
I looked into buying a house that way, wrap it into a foreign company, and then sell the company when I ever come to sell it.The trust is itself totally artificial, but meets all relevant tax laws, so no tax is payable...
One thing I don't undrerstand about the EBTs - they have obviously been abused for tax (evasion/avoidance) [delete as appropriate], but what ever was the legitimate intended use of them?
I decided there was no point in the end, though.
James_B said:
Or, to argue the numbers the other way, it’s the poor who don’t pay their fair share. Over half of all households take out more than they pay in, while the top 1% of earners pay 30% of income tax despite only taking 14% of all of the wages.
Bloody "poor" running around in Astons, yachts and private jets with the tax they haven't paid! 
It seems to me that the most egregious 'avoidance' schemes and structures use trusts to, AIUI, dissociate the assets from their owners/beneficiaries. In a few cases, like say caring for disabled children I get it but otherwise I'm struggling to see why they are accepted as legitimate structures. Can anyone explain why they are so widely tolerated/considered legit?
James_B said:
I looked into buying a house that way, wrap it into a foreign company, and then sell the company when I ever come to sell it.
I decided there was no point in the end, though.
Assuming you are UK resident for tax purposes, there are a huge array of negative tax impilcations of doing this. And you'd have to manage and control the company outside the UK. Not sure what the perceived benefits of this are. I decided there was no point in the end, though.
James_B said:
Or, to argue the numbers the other way, it’s the poor who don’t pay their fair share. Over half of all households take out more than they pay in, while the top 1% of earners pay 30% of income tax despite only taking 14% of all of the wages.
If you have little or no income, how do you pay income tax?The poor don't pay much inheritance tax because they don't inherit anything.
The poor don't pay much stamp duty because they can't afford to buy a house.
The poor don't pay much tax because they are poor.
Income tax is only 25% of UK revenue (source - https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9178 ) so I wonder what percentage of the other 75% of revenue is directly or indirectly supplied by the 50% of households who are taking out more than they pay in in income tax? There is some information but I suspect the burden especially from VAT makes the 50% bigger contributors to that lump than the 1%.
Edited by steviegunn on Thursday 9th November 22:52
Alpinestars said:
Assuming you are UK resident for tax purposes, there are a huge array of negative tax impilcations of doing this. And you'd have to manage and control the company outside the UK. Not sure what the perceived benefits of this are.
It had been suggested that selling the foreign company would,have avoided stamp duty, and that the rental income could have been better dealt with.In the end it didn’t feel right, and I suspect it’d not have worked.
steviegunn said:
If you have little or no income, how do you pay income tax?
The poor don't pay much inheritance tax because they don't inherit anything.
The poor don't pay much stamp duty because they can't afford to buy a house.
The poor don't pay much tax because they are poor.
Income tax is only 25% of UK revenue (source - https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9178 ) so I wonder what percentage of the other 75% of revenue is directly or indirectly supplied by the 50% of households who are taking out more than they pay in in income tax? There is some information but I suspect the burden especially from VAT makes the 50% bigger contributors to that lump than the 1%.
Taking out more than they pay in total tax, not in income tax. I posted the ONS data up,the other day showing how redistributive our tax system is overall.The poor don't pay much inheritance tax because they don't inherit anything.
The poor don't pay much stamp duty because they can't afford to buy a house.
The poor don't pay much tax because they are poor.
Income tax is only 25% of UK revenue (source - https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9178 ) so I wonder what percentage of the other 75% of revenue is directly or indirectly supplied by the 50% of households who are taking out more than they pay in in income tax? There is some information but I suspect the burden especially from VAT makes the 50% bigger contributors to that lump than the 1%.
Edited by steviegunn on Thursday 9th November 22:52
So your suspicions are wrong, most households are net recipients, they take more out than they pay in.
This myth that the lower paid are paying too much just isn’t true, the burden is at the other end of the scale.
Yipper said:
Tax always works on a bell-curve.
The very poorest pay little.
The very richest pay little.
Everyone in between pays a lot.
The poorest pay nothing, and the richest tend to pay a lot.The very poorest pay little.
The very richest pay little.
Everyone in between pays a lot.
Whenever people are given real-world examples I know that the claim that they mean some other rich people, but you’ll be hard pressed to find any that are in the bottom half of tax payers.
Just how rich are you proposing that you have to go before you are going to find people paying little? The star trader in the city on £10m a year will be paying about £4.7m in deductions, then you’ve someone like Alan Sugar, who paid £58m in tax personally last year, and you’ve then got the fact that the top 1%of earners pay 30% of all income tax, on 14%of all wages.
The hyperbole from some that the rich pay little is just not borne out by the facts.
ksGassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff