Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

[hidetheelephants]

king arthur said:

There are some concerning facts about the attack. Like, why did it take the police/security forces one hour seventeen minutes to respond when they should have been just 10 minutes away? Was this deliberate? Why did it take Putin so long to speak about it?

Assume nothing when it comes to Putin's Russia, he ordered the mass murder of russians to give him an excuse to flatten Grozny.

[BikeBikeBIke]

bloomen said:

I don't get how they thought their post-slaughter escape plan was going to work.

Criminals are thick. I'm struggling to think of any recent Islamists with a decent getaway plan.

It is mental though. Using the car they turned up in. Going to Belarus. Were they thinking "They'll never think we'd go North.". Yeah, 'cos it's a stupid idea.

Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Monday 25th March 21:11

[BikeBikeBIke]

king arthur said:

There are some concerning facts about the attack. Like, why did it take the police/security forces one hour seventeen minutes to respond when they should have been just 10 minutes away? Was this deliberate? Why did it take Putin so long to speak about it?

Mark Galleoti covered this in his superb recent podcast.

He reckons the police were there in about 35 minutes so the one hour number is iffy.

Secondly, armed police don't sit in their vans with the engine ticking over. It takes time to get sorted out and work out what's going on. They might even have been busy elsewhere when the call came in.

Plus the culprits left after 20 minutes.

[macron]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Plus the culprits left after 20 minutes.

But got found in no time at all...

[BikeBikeBIke]

macron said:

But got found in no time at all...

...but turned out to be the right people.

[julian987R]

BikeBikeBIke said:

macron said:

But got found in no time at all...

...but turned out to be the right people.

The dissection begins!

[BikeBikeBIke]

julian987R said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

macron said:

But got found in no time at all...

...but turned out to be the right people.

The dissection begins!

I love conspiracy theories, and this is gonna produce dozens!

[julian987R]

BikeBikeBIke said:

julian987R said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

macron said:

But got found in no time at all...

...but turned out to be the right people.

The dissection begins!

I love conspiracy theories, and this is gonna produce dozens!

I can’t see much conspiracy to be had.
Terrorists disassembled in a manner that would make even Jigsaw faint. Body desecrated and no entering Paradise for these douchebags.

There isn’t much more to be had from it is there?

[BikeBikeBIke]

julian987R said:

I can’t see much conspiracy to be had.
Terrorists disassembled in a manner that would make even Jigsaw faint. Body desecrated and no entering Paradise for these douchebags.

There isn’t much more to be had from it is there?

I thought you meant dissection of events.

You meant dissection in the sense of dissection.

I can't say I have much sympathy. It's no way to run a country but.... shrug.

Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Monday 25th March 22:05

[Charlie1986]

Anyone watching BBC 2 currently great insight to the war from body cameras worn

[julian987R]

BikeBikeBIke said:

julian987R said:

I can’t see much conspiracy to be had.
Terrorists disassembled in a manner that would make even Jigsaw faint. Body desecrated and no entering Paradise for these douchebags.

There isn’t much more to be had from it is there?

I thought you meant dissection of events.

You meant dissection in the sense of dissection.

I can't say I have much sympathy. It's no way to run a country but.... shrug.

Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Monday 25th March 22:05

Yep I mean dissection on a level that is so far off the scale of depravity. It’s a beautiful thought of what is coming to these four.

If this had been in the UK, especially under a Labour Party, they’d be given a hotel suite, mini bar toblerones and a human rights lawyer. Had Corbyn been PM he’d be offering them asylum!

[youngsyr]

BikeBikeBIke said:

essayer said:

If they can hit Samsara they can hit Moscow. Interesting

They've already hit refinerys near Moscow. Not sure they'd want to hit Moscow itself, would create support for the war in Russia where there was little enthusiasm before.

That's Western thinking. What the people think in Russia is irrelevant.

It's what the people at the top think that matters. If they come under attack, Putin's grip on power may weaken.

[Daz68]

What a world we are living in. It is just so fked up. Political games and big boy bragging will only end one way. Putin is pushing all the way by the looks and seeing how far he get's away with it.

[bristolracer]

Charlie1986 said:

Anyone watching BBC 2 currently great insight to the war from body cameras worn

Yes well worth viewing.
For all the military discussion on this thread about rocket systems and multi million dollar planes and tanks, it shows the reality of men in trenches, the injuries the deaths and the appalling conditions these guys are fighting in.
The stats in the closing credits are eye opening and worrying.
It’s a truly awful conflict.

[WindyCommon]

Charlie1986 said:

Anyone watching BBC 2 currently great insight to the war from body cameras worn

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001xr50/ukraine-enemy-in-the-woods

An incredible piece of film. If you’re interested in this thread you should watch it.

[TEKNOPUG]

BikeBikeBIke said:

macron said:

But got found in no time at all...

...but turned out to be the right people.

It's almost as if they knew who to look for and where...

[julian987R]

TEKNOPUG said:

It's almost as if they knew who to look for and where...

it's almost like they had CCTV and trained in tracking terrorists. who'd have thought it.

[hidetheelephants]

bristolracer said:

Charlie1986 said:

Anyone watching BBC 2 currently great insight to the war from body cameras worn

Yes well worth viewing.
For all the military discussion on this thread about rocket systems and multi million dollar planes and tanks, it shows the reality of men in trenches, the injuries the deaths and the appalling conditions these guys are fighting in.
The stats in the closing credits are eye opening and worrying.
It’s a truly awful conflict.

and why I have no patience at all for not taking this more seriously, funding and equipping Ukraine to a much greater extent and on a longterm basis to allow Ukraine to plan. Estonia has pledged 0.25% of GDP for the next 4 years; perhaps Rachel Reeves would baulk at that but maybe 0.1% would be acceptable. Whatever number is settled on it must be for the long haul.

[BikeBikeBIke]

hidetheelephants said:

and why I have no patience at all for not taking this more seriously, funding and equipping Ukraine to a much greater extent and on a longterm basis to allow Ukraine to plan. Estonia has pledged 0.25% of GDP for the next 4 years; perhaps Rachel Reeves would baulk at that but maybe 0.1% would be acceptable. Whatever number is settled on it must be for the long haul.

+1

And the ongoing commitment is.the critical bit so Ukraine can plan around it amd so Putin knows its not just a case of hanging on for 12 months.

[sisu]

trickywoo said:

catso said:

OK, my mistake but missiles overflying Poland gives Poland not only the right to shoot them down but also to engage with the launcher to prevent further instances.

So my point about Russia getting away with it stands.

indeed. I've said it before but we are pussyfooting around fearing escalation and Russia are sending missiles over NATO and nothing gets done.

The question is for Poland, is do they strike these sites in Belarus? Pretty sure that Belarus has the hope that Russia is the deterrent, however this would now be a test given that they are firing missiles at Poland, into Polish airspace.
The idea that Ukraine is not targeting Belarus is its proximity to Kyiv. Much like the oil refineries Russia hoped it would be immune from. Belarus assumes that no one else will strike to prevent escalation.