Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)
Discussion
AstonZagato said:
P5BNij said:
That Fundoreen is indeed living in a bubble just as you said in your reply - I'm seeing this almost everywhere else from Labour's side, the just don't seem to be able to accept that Corbyn's toxicity is part of the problem, not just Brexit 
I slightly disagree - it is not Corbyn's toxicity, it is the toxicity of Corbynism.It is interesting that so few Labour activists can see that it was not just Brexit. It was not even the additional downside of a leader with a very dodgy past. This defeat was rooted the policies they were trying to sell that make no sense in their traditional strongholds. Brexit merely shone a light on the divide (well, yawning gulf) that has opened up between the traditional Labour voter and the current policies of their old party. These policies might get traction amongst the activists in the Party but the wider British people want little or nothing to do with them.
I don't think the Party will (or even can) learn from this. After Foot, we had to go through the Kinnock reforms before we got to an electable Labour Party. I don't think Labour will do that again, because of the scarring from the Blair years. I therefore don't think we will get new New Labour - but the Party needs to reform if it wants power in the next decade.
t about what is happening in that part of the world. P5BNij said:
Dont like rolls said:
P5BNij said:
The denial is palpable.
Sorry, added a late edit...Errr, what denial and of what ?
“We didn’t want to vote for Boris but we had to vote for one idiot to stop the other idiot getting in......”
Burwood said:
The mistakes Labour made were glaring. I would think it a relatively simply fix if they can decouple from the Momentum loons
1. Ruthless purge of anything AS. No excuses. Get rid of them and stop talking about Palestine/Israel. Focus on domestic issues-we have plenty
2. Appoint a less polarising leader. One who doesn't have so much baggage.
3. Stop weaponising the NHS. The secret papers, sell the NHS was laughable and smacked of desperation. They could have poleaxed the Conservatives with facts on under spending and underperformance.
4. Their tax policy on Capital Gains attacked pensioners and anyone with a pension. Bad move.
5. Take a position and stick to it. Fence sitting is for wimps.The same with 'we hate it just because Tory'.
6. Attacking the US constantly is a net vote loser as most want a good relationship with our biggest ally. Stop attacking nato and being soft on the human rights of criminals.
7. labour immigration policy cost them dearly-the vast majority want measured immigration. We can't afford to house, care, pay for all of them.
8. Reign in the free stuff. Waspi lost them votes. The 20B tree planting was a joke of an idea
labour made too many promises in the manifesto. It read as a fantasy and no credible. The real question is, can they move away from the loon factor. Probably not. There's going to be a st storm internally for some time to come.
A fair summary and none of them require them to have a new Blair as leader. Just someone with some grasp of the real world. 1. Ruthless purge of anything AS. No excuses. Get rid of them and stop talking about Palestine/Israel. Focus on domestic issues-we have plenty
2. Appoint a less polarising leader. One who doesn't have so much baggage.
3. Stop weaponising the NHS. The secret papers, sell the NHS was laughable and smacked of desperation. They could have poleaxed the Conservatives with facts on under spending and underperformance.
4. Their tax policy on Capital Gains attacked pensioners and anyone with a pension. Bad move.
5. Take a position and stick to it. Fence sitting is for wimps.The same with 'we hate it just because Tory'.
6. Attacking the US constantly is a net vote loser as most want a good relationship with our biggest ally. Stop attacking nato and being soft on the human rights of criminals.
7. labour immigration policy cost them dearly-the vast majority want measured immigration. We can't afford to house, care, pay for all of them.
8. Reign in the free stuff. Waspi lost them votes. The 20B tree planting was a joke of an idea
labour made too many promises in the manifesto. It read as a fantasy and no credible. The real question is, can they move away from the loon factor. Probably not. There's going to be a s
t storm internally for some time to come.AstonZagato said:
P5BNij said:
That Fundoreen is indeed living in a bubble just as you said in your reply - I'm seeing this almost everywhere else from Labour's side, the just don't seem to be able to accept that Corbyn's toxicity is part of the problem, not just Brexit
I slightly disagree - it is not Corbyn's toxicity, it is the toxicity of Corbynism.It is interesting that so few Labour activists can see that it was not just Brexit. It was not even the additional downside of a leader with a very dodgy past. This defeat was rooted the policies they were trying to sell that make no sense in their traditional strongholds. Brexit merely shone a light on the divide (well, yawning gulf) that has opened up between the traditional Labour voter and the current policies of their old party. These policies might get traction amongst the activists in the Party but the wider British people want little or nothing to do with them.
I don't think the Party will (or even can) learn from this. After Foot, we had to go through the Kinnock reforms before we got to an electable Labour Party. I don't think Labour will do that again, because of the scarring from the Blair years. I therefore don't think we will get new New Labour - but the Party needs to reform if it wants power in the next decade.
AstonZagato said:
I slightly disagree - it is not Corbyn's toxicity, it is the toxicity of Corbynism.
It is interesting that so few Labour activists can see that it was not just Brexit. It was not even the additional downside of a leader with a very dodgy past. This defeat was rooted the policies they were trying to sell that make no sense in their traditional strongholds. Brexit merely shone a light on the divide (well, yawning gulf) that has opened up between the traditional Labour voter and the current policies of their old party. These policies might get traction amongst the activists in the Party but the wider British people want little or nothing to do with them.
I don't think the Party will (or even can) learn from this. After Foot, we had to go through the Kinnock reforms before we got to an electable Labour Party. I don't think Labour will do that again, because of the scarring from the Blair years. I therefore don't think we will get new New Labour - but the Party needs to reform if it wants power in the next decade.
A Momentum type activist lives in a very thick walled bubble, it is a cult, a blind faith, a direction for the lost and confused to follow, a road for those that cannot confront their own self loathing and self disappointment, those that are angry and filled with envy, all in all those that see nothing, learn nothing and cannot accept alternatives to their leaders myopic visions.It is interesting that so few Labour activists can see that it was not just Brexit. It was not even the additional downside of a leader with a very dodgy past. This defeat was rooted the policies they were trying to sell that make no sense in their traditional strongholds. Brexit merely shone a light on the divide (well, yawning gulf) that has opened up between the traditional Labour voter and the current policies of their old party. These policies might get traction amongst the activists in the Party but the wider British people want little or nothing to do with them.
I don't think the Party will (or even can) learn from this. After Foot, we had to go through the Kinnock reforms before we got to an electable Labour Party. I don't think Labour will do that again, because of the scarring from the Blair years. I therefore don't think we will get new New Labour - but the Party needs to reform if it wants power in the next decade.
Both of the political parties failed to heed the very real concerns of the public, which is what enabled UKIP to get the THIRD largest share of votes.
The Conservatives learned from this, well most of them anyway, whilst most of Labour did not.
Berating people for not conforming to your view of democracy is not democracy. That sort of approach will, eventually, one way or another, kick you up the arse every time.
The Conservatives learned from this, well most of them anyway, whilst most of Labour did not.
Berating people for not conforming to your view of democracy is not democracy. That sort of approach will, eventually, one way or another, kick you up the arse every time.
Dont like rolls said:
AstonZagato said:
I slightly disagree - it is not Corbyn's toxicity, it is the toxicity of Corbynism.
It is interesting that so few Labour activists can see that it was not just Brexit. It was not even the additional downside of a leader with a very dodgy past. This defeat was rooted the policies they were trying to sell that make no sense in their traditional strongholds. Brexit merely shone a light on the divide (well, yawning gulf) that has opened up between the traditional Labour voter and the current policies of their old party. These policies might get traction amongst the activists in the Party but the wider British people want little or nothing to do with them.
I don't think the Party will (or even can) learn from this. After Foot, we had to go through the Kinnock reforms before we got to an electable Labour Party. I don't think Labour will do that again, because of the scarring from the Blair years. I therefore don't think we will get new New Labour - but the Party needs to reform if it wants power in the next decade.
A Momentum type activist lives in a very thick walled bubble, it is a cult, a blind faith, a direction for the lost and confused to follow, a road for those that cannot confront their own self loathing and self disappointment, those that are angry and filled with envy, all in all those that see nothing, learn nothing and cannot accept alternatives to their leaders myopic visions.It is interesting that so few Labour activists can see that it was not just Brexit. It was not even the additional downside of a leader with a very dodgy past. This defeat was rooted the policies they were trying to sell that make no sense in their traditional strongholds. Brexit merely shone a light on the divide (well, yawning gulf) that has opened up between the traditional Labour voter and the current policies of their old party. These policies might get traction amongst the activists in the Party but the wider British people want little or nothing to do with them.
I don't think the Party will (or even can) learn from this. After Foot, we had to go through the Kinnock reforms before we got to an electable Labour Party. I don't think Labour will do that again, because of the scarring from the Blair years. I therefore don't think we will get new New Labour - but the Party needs to reform if it wants power in the next decade.
Burwood said:
dieselgrunt said:
he's just been on the news. Everyone's fault but his, no blame to be put on his shoulders. He accepts no responsibility personally for this catastrophe.
Exactly the same with Swinson. Myopic, delusion and narcissism. Bad mix.Phil Wilson said:
For @UKLabour leadership to blame Brexit for the result is mendacious nonsense. Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership was a bigger problem. To say otherwise is delusional. The Party’s leadership went down like a lead balloon on the doorstep. Labour’s leadership needs to take responsibility.
He gets it.Has ANY Labour MP congratulated Boris Johnson or the Conservatives yet ?
All I have seen is bitter repeats of their dismissed mantra and shouting about Brexit being the problem. The number "feeling sorry" for their constituents loss is shocking....NO, the majority told you to fk off so feel happy for them you knobs!
All I have seen is bitter repeats of their dismissed mantra and shouting about Brexit being the problem. The number "feeling sorry" for their constituents loss is shocking....NO, the majority told you to f
k off so feel happy for them you knobs!Edited by Dont like rolls on Friday 13th December 14:39
HoHoHo said:
When is he going to realise he’s the problem, he’s the reason Labour returned the worst result since 1935 and go?
Now he’s blaming the Labour Party because they approved his manifesto......
fk me.....
The arrogance of the man is beyond reason and he can’t see it......
The first PMQ's is going to be a delight Now he’s blaming the Labour Party because they approved his manifesto......
f
k me.....The arrogance of the man is beyond reason and he can’t see it......
Burwood said:
HoHoHo said:
When is he going to realise he’s the problem, he’s the reason Labour returned the worst result since 1935 and go?
Now he’s blaming the Labour Party because they approved his manifesto......
fk me.....
The arrogance of the man is beyond reason and he can’t see it......
The first PMQ's is going to be a delight Now he’s blaming the Labour Party because they approved his manifesto......
f
k me.....The arrogance of the man is beyond reason and he can’t see it......
tali1 said:
Corbyn was dead rubber from the beginning -there was no way the tax -dodging billionaire right -wing gutter press barons where ever going to allow him to get into power.
You said that exact phrase in the "what future for the Labour party" thread, even down to the spelling and grammar errors. Copy and paste is great, isn't it?
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