Derek Chauvin Trial

[Killboy]

blackrabbit said:

You know better? Where do you live in the US and for how long? How many black and white Americans do you know and interact with/discuss these issues with in various states? Have you chatted to many regular black Americans and asked them their views on BLM? Were they all in support? Tell us about your experience in these matters.

I bet like most you no nothing other than the crap you injest from the Guardian and of course your only option is then resort to silly retorts with no substance.

Edited by blackrabbit on Monday 26th April 19:43

Do you really think you're the only one to have spent any time in the US? My wife is from Atlanta, and I've spent a fair bit of time there. My aunt and cousins live in Roswell. I've lived in Charlotte NC and NYC. I'm also from South Africa - so I'm willing to bet I've spent a fair bit more time interacting with black people than you. And from what you are saying, its clear you have zero true idea what its like, or what the issues are. I'm taking a guess you have not taken a second to actually have a decent conversation about it. Considering you've accused everyone of "race baiting", I'm guessing that's what you feel happened to you.

Your state is in the midst of passing the most extreme voter suppression laws, so much so companies and the like are starting to boycott it for the obvious intentions it has. I'm sure you will excuse or show us the "real" issues shortly. The hog wash about :

blackrabbit said:

Currently in 2021 I see it being harder to get a good job, into a good private school or into college if you are white than black in the US all else being equal due to quotas being applied and if anything the pendulum has moved towards discrimination in some areas to white people especially white males.

This is just 5 star BS.

[Byker28i]

Killboy said:

This is just 5 star BS.

...but feeds entirely into the narrative pushed by a minority

[Carl_Manchester]

stitched said:

This subject annoys the hell out of me.
I don't have any black friends or work mates.
I don't have any Asian friends or work mates.
I don't have any eastern european friends or work mates.
I don't have any white, japanese or chinese friends or work mates.
I just have friends and workmates.
I agree that people are given less opportunity if they are from a different background than the indiginous people.
I have never done that, but recognise it is a problem, however bringing it up all the time is a negative force on equality.
DC should, and will, go to jail.
But it should be for allowing a detainee to expire whilst being restrained inappropriately.
Any part of the trial or sentencing which mentions race is part of the problem.
He should have the same punishment regardless of the race of the individuals, anything else is racist.

Now now Stitched, let's not let your rational thoughts get in the way of 20 years of identity politics and group-think, you might as well go with the flow on this one.....

[Fresh Prince]

Carl_Manchester said:

stitched said:

This subject annoys the hell out of me.
I don't have any black friends or work mates.
I don't have any Asian friends or work mates.
I don't have any eastern european friends or work mates.
I don't have any white, japanese or chinese friends or work mates.
I just have friends and workmates.
I agree that people are given less opportunity if they are from a different background than the indiginous people.
I have never done that, but recognise it is a problem, however bringing it up all the time is a negative force on equality.
DC should, and will, go to jail.
But it should be for allowing a detainee to expire whilst being restrained inappropriately.
Any part of the trial or sentencing which mentions race is part of the problem.
He should have the same punishment regardless of the race of the individuals, anything else is racist.

Now now Stitched, let's not let your rational thoughts get in the way of 20 years of identity politics and group-think, you might as well go with the flow on this one.....

No, I think views should be shared openly. Don't go with the flow for the sake of it.

FWIW I think I understand what stitched is saying, on a personal level that approach makes sense. But I don't think it works at a macro/state/institutional level. I currently live in France and ignoring race at a state level is the approach taken here. It doesn't solve discrimination, I think you could argue that some types of discrimination are worse in France than the UK, so I don't think you can deal with discrimination by ignoring it completely.

I definitely agree on it being annoying. I think those who experience it frequently also are similarly annoyed, and would rather be in a position where they didn't have to talk about it. In my view, bringing up the issue doesn't make things more negative, it only highlights what is already there. I suspect some would feel more comfortable if it weren't discussed.

The DC/GF interaction happened in the context of problematic police interactions with the general public. Judge the individual case on its on merits, including whether there is evidence of a clear pattern/history of behaviour. But the broader questions this case has highlighted haven't come out of thin air.

[stitched]

Carl_Manchester said:

stitched said:

This subject annoys the hell out of me.
I don't have any black friends or work mates.
I don't have any Asian friends or work mates.
I don't have any eastern european friends or work mates.
I don't have any white, japanese or chinese friends or work mates.
I just have friends and workmates.
I agree that people are given less opportunity if they are from a different background than the indiginous people.
I have never done that, but recognise it is a problem, however bringing it up all the time is a negative force on equality.
DC should, and will, go to jail.
But it should be for allowing a detainee to expire whilst being restrained inappropriately.
Any part of the trial or sentencing which mentions race is part of the problem.
He should have the same punishment regardless of the race of the individuals, anything else is racist.

Now now Stitched, let's not let your rational thoughts get in the way of 20 years of identity politics and group-think, you might as well go with the flow on this one.....

Nay, Nay, thrice nay.
When working in your borough I was told by my HR department that I couldn't sack a useless employee as she was black, female and was claiming to be pregnant.
That is racist, sexist and whatevever you call it 'ist.
I treat all people the same.
And always will.

[blackrabbit]

Killboy said:

blackrabbit said:

You know better? Where do you live in the US and for how long? How many black and white Americans do you know and interact with/discuss these issues with in various states? Have you chatted to many regular black Americans and asked them their views on BLM? Were they all in support? Tell us about your experience in these matters.

I bet like most you no nothing other than the crap you injest from the Guardian and of course your only option is then resort to silly retorts with no substance.

Edited by blackrabbit on Monday 26th April 19:43

Do you really think you're the only one to have spent any time in the US? My wife is from Atlanta, and I've spent a fair bit of time there. My aunt and cousins live in Roswell. I've lived in Charlotte NC and NYC. I'm also from South Africa - so I'm willing to bet I've spent a fair bit more time interacting with black people than you. And from what you are saying, its clear you have zero true idea what its like, or what the issues are. I'm taking a guess you have not taken a second to actually have a decent conversation about it. Considering you've accused everyone of "race baiting", I'm guessing that's what you feel happened to you.

Your state is in the midst of passing the most extreme voter suppression laws, so much so companies and the like are starting to boycott it for the obvious intentions it has. I'm sure you will excuse or show us the "real" issues shortly. The hog wash about :

So you think Atlanta is a racist city even though it is the number 1 destination of African Americans to move to for opportunity? Same applies even more so to Georgia which is also the number 1 state for African Americans to move to. You are looking for racism so much you would have had a good career as a witch hunter back in the day. Companies are virtue signalling as they are scared of the Twitter mob attacking them. BLM just continuing the tactics of Jesse Jackson back in day. If you ever get to Roswell go out to a bar and you will see more black white interaction than most anywhere world. Ask black people why they live in Roswell and not downtown and see the answer you get. It will be to avoid crime and they prefer Roswell with its own police force even though they are majority white.

Edited by blackrabbit on Tuesday 27th April 10:33

[blackrabbit]

Byker28i said:

Killboy said:

This is just 5 star BS.

...but feeds entirely into the narrative pushed by a minority

Do you do a lot of hiring for Fortune 500's in the US? Or speak to many school/college admissions directors in the US?

[anonymous-user]

Gameface said:

He talks as if he's given it a go himself as well.

I have considerable sympathy for the plight of many white, migrant workers in the UK.

Where do you stand on the subject?

[Killboy]

blackrabbit said:

So you think Atlanta is a racist city even though it is the number 1 destination of African Americans to move to for opportunity? Same applies even more so to Georgia which is also the number 1 state for African Americans to move to. You are looking for racism so much you would have had a good career as a witch hunter back in the day. Companies are virtue signalling as they are scared of the Twitter mob attacking them. BLM just continuing the tactics of Jesse Jackson back in day. If you ever get to Roswell go out to a bar and you will see more black white interaction than most anywhere world. Ask black people why they live in Roswell and not downtown and see the answer you get. It will be to avoid crime and they prefer Roswell with its own police force even though they are majority white.

Edited by blackrabbit on Tuesday 27th April 10:33

Lol. This is beautiful.

What's your take on the voter suppression stuff going on?

[Gameface]

rockin said:

Gameface said:

He talks as if he's given it a go himself as well.

I have considerable sympathy for the plight of many white, migrant workers in the UK.

Where do you stand on the subject?

You think I'm going to answer you?

You've made it clear about your thoughts on me, my opinions and my taste, when you commented on my black Lamborghinis.

[rscott]

blackrabbit said:

Killboy said:

blackrabbit said:

You know better? Where do you live in the US and for how long? How many black and white Americans do you know and interact with/discuss these issues with in various states? Have you chatted to many regular black Americans and asked them their views on BLM? Were they all in support? Tell us about your experience in these matters.

I bet like most you no nothing other than the crap you injest from the Guardian and of course your only option is then resort to silly retorts with no substance.

Edited by blackrabbit on Monday 26th April 19:43

Do you really think you're the only one to have spent any time in the US? My wife is from Atlanta, and I've spent a fair bit of time there. My aunt and cousins live in Roswell. I've lived in Charlotte NC and NYC. I'm also from South Africa - so I'm willing to bet I've spent a fair bit more time interacting with black people than you. And from what you are saying, its clear you have zero true idea what its like, or what the issues are. I'm taking a guess you have not taken a second to actually have a decent conversation about it. Considering you've accused everyone of "race baiting", I'm guessing that's what you feel happened to you.

Your state is in the midst of passing the most extreme voter suppression laws, so much so companies and the like are starting to boycott it for the obvious intentions it has. I'm sure you will excuse or show us the "real" issues shortly. The hog wash about :

So you think Atlanta is a racist city even though it is the number 1 destination of African Americans to move to for opportunity? Same applies even more so to Georgia which is also the number 1 state for African Americans to move to. You are looking for racism so much you would have had a good career as a witch hunter back in the day. Companies are virtue signalling as they are scared of the Twitter mob attacking them. BLM just continuing the tactics of Jesse Jackson back in day. If you ever get to Roswell go out to a bar and you will see more black white interaction than most anywhere world. Ask black people why they live in Roswell and not downtown and see the answer you get. It will be to avoid crime and they prefer Roswell with its own police force even though they are majority white.

Edited by blackrabbit on Tuesday 27th April 10:33

It's something which I've discussed with some of my colleagues in Atlanta, many of whom are black. Without exception they all support the basic original BLM focus on discrimination by the police and also a review of police funding to see if it some can be spent more effectively elsewhere in the community. They don't agree with some of the other views and objectives coming out of BLM Global Network though.

Many have mentioned examples of discrimination based on their colour.
Example - one couple (black male, white female) said they've had very unequal treatment by the police in traffic stops.. Car always searched if the black male is stopped for suspected speeding (never ticketed for speeding, just a search of the vehicle as they always claim drug odours), but when the wife's white brother was clocked well over the limit, he got off with a friendly warning and no search whatsoever.

[majordad]

Could the stop and search be because Black people commit more crime so more likely suspects? If the object is to keep crime down then you target the likely suspects. This does result is collateral damage but is worth it imho even if the police are targeting whites.

[ReverendCounter]

US police killings of Black Americans amount to crimes against humanity, international inquiry finds

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/26/us...

Link to the report

https://inquirycommission.org/website/wp-content/u...

[rscott]

majordad said:

Could the stop and search be because Black people commit more crime so more likely suspects? If the object is to keep crime down then you target the likely suspects. This does result is collateral damage but is worth it imho even if the police are targeting whites.

Study of 100m traffic stops - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/...

nbcnews said:

Police stops: A "veil of darkness" test was done to analyze whether black drivers are being pulled over at a higher rate during the day than at night, when officers would have a harder time distinguishing race from a distance. After adjusting for the variation in sunset times across the year, researchers found a 5 to 10 percent drop in the share of stopped drivers after sunset who are black, suggesting black drivers are being racially profiled during the day.
Police searches: Researchers reviewed the rate at which drivers were searched and the likelihood that those searches turned up illegal drugs and guns. There was evidence that the bar for searching black and Latino drivers is lower than that for white drivers, even though white drivers were more likely to have contraband. Across states, contraband was found in 36 percent of searches of white drivers, compared to 32 percent for black drivers and 26 percent for Latinos.
Impact of marijuana legalization: After the legalization of recreational marijuana in Colorado and Washington state, there has been a reduction in searches of both white and minority drivers. But the search rate remains twice as high for minorities, a trend also noted in a 2017 Stanford study.

[blackrabbit]

majordad said:

Could the stop and search be because Black people commit more crime so more likely suspects? If the object is to keep crime down then you target the likely suspects. This does result is collateral damage but is worth it imho even if the police are targeting whites.

Same as Muslim men more likely to be searched and questioned boarding a plane. Profiling is generally for a reason. Police with their experience see certain profiles as more likely to be engaged in committing a crime. I think its called predictive profiling and race is one of the inputs as well as age, sex, clothes etc. Isreal are masters of this on boarding a flight/crossing their land borders and it works. Intent is to lower crime which is the police's job.

[Killboy]

blackrabbit said:

majordad said:

Could the stop and search be because Black people commit more crime so more likely suspects? If the object is to keep crime down then you target the likely suspects. This does result is collateral damage but is worth it imho even if the police are targeting whites.

Same as Muslim men more likely to be searched and questioned boarding a plane. Profiling is generally for a reason. Police with their experience see certain profiles as more likely to be engaged in committing a crime. I think its called predictive profiling and race is one of the inputs as well as age, sex, clothes etc. Isreal are masters of this on boarding a flight/crossing their land borders and it works. Intent is to lower crime which is the police's job.

Its interesting to see times change. More recently most domestic terrorism in the US seems to be committed by white people. Especially in red hats. I think its going to be a pain in the ass for white people to fly soon.

[stitched]

rscott said:

majordad said:

Could the stop and search be because Black people commit more crime so more likely suspects? If the object is to keep crime down then you target the likely suspects. This does result is collateral damage but is worth it imho even if the police are targeting whites.

Study of 100m traffic stops - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/...

nbcnews said:

Police stops: A "veil of darkness" test was done to analyze whether black drivers are being pulled over at a higher rate during the day than at night, when officers would have a harder time distinguishing race from a distance. After adjusting for the variation in sunset times across the year, researchers found a 5 to 10 percent drop in the share of stopped drivers after sunset who are black, suggesting black drivers are being racially profiled during the day.
Police searches: Researchers reviewed the rate at which drivers were searched and the likelihood that those searches turned up illegal drugs and guns. There was evidence that the bar for searching black and Latino drivers is lower than that for white drivers, even though white drivers were more likely to have contraband. Across states, contraband was found in 36 percent of searches of white drivers, compared to 32 percent for black drivers and 26 percent for Latinos.
Impact of marijuana legalization: After the legalization of recreational marijuana in Colorado and Washington state, there has been a reduction in searches of both white and minority drivers. But the search rate remains twice as high for minorities, a trend also noted in a 2017 Stanford study.

Honestly?
Police pulled 100 latino drivers of whom 35 were carrying drugs, this is because it is believed in that area that latinos are likely to be involved in trafficking drugs.
They made 10 targeted stops of white drivers, 6 of whom were carrying drugs.
So only 35% of latino stops were rewarded with a drugs bust however 60% of whites stopped were rewarded with a drugs bust.
This obviously means far more whites are trafficking drugs in the area.

Figures are entirely made up, however I'm sure you see what I'm getting at.

[anonymous-user]

Gameface said:

You've made it clear about your thoughts on me, my opinions and my taste, when you commented on my black Lamborghinis.

I thought this thread was about police brutality and its potential interaction with racism, not your automotive insecurities.

Whilst I can't claim to have a deep understanding of another country's race issues it does seem odd that some racial groups have more of those "issues" than others. California has many different racial groups and yet appears to have less flat-out racial violence than some other states. And while Mexican immigrants have been much derided by Trump and his followers they don't seem to be rioting in the streets. When you consider much of the South West was nicked from Mexico in the first place it's all pretty remarkable.

[Gameface]

rockin said:

automotive insecurities.

Says the man who calls other peoples cars 'steaming turds' from the safety of the internet.

Hypocrite.

[coppernorks]

Back to Chauvin, might have been mentioned before, but I believe the jury
reaching their decisions in less than 24 hours is a factor pertinent to sentencing and/or plea deal.

Not quite sure how that works, but as we all know varying state Justice systems
are certainly not hamstrung by simplicity and user friendliness.