Welsh lockdown

[WindyCommon]

Mark Drakeford said:

“.. They're not given to us to use in a few days; that is the supply Wales has for the whole of January and the first week of February as well. And that's why it would never have been a sensible proposition to have suggested that we should have used the whole of that supply in the first few days.
That supply has to be evened out over the weeks for which it is available, so that we have vaccinators with work to do in every week able to make the very most of that supply.”

Bizarre.

Vaccinations should be conducted as quickly as resources allow. It doesn’t matter if vaccinators are under-utilised at times.

Drakeford’s explanation reads like some sort of British Leyland socialist idea that work should be “evened out” to ensure that there is work for the workers.

If Boris Johnson had said this, he’d have had the press and opposition all over him demanding a better explanation. Drakeford exists in a world where he has little if any effective challenge. And it shows.

Edited by WindyCommon on Monday 18th January 12:36

[Sargeant Orange]

WindyCommon said:

Bizarre.

Vaccinations should be conducted as quickly as resources allow. It doesn’t matter if vaccinators are under-utilised at times.

Drakeford’s explanation reads like some sort of British Leyland socialist idea that work should be “evened out” to ensure that there is work for the workers.

If Boris Johnson had said this, he’d have had the press and opposition all over him demanding a better explanation. Drakeford exists in a world where he has little if any effective challenge. And it shows.

Edited by WindyCommon on Monday 18th January 12:36

I thought I read yesterday (although can't find the article now!) that the delay now was due to the delays in the Pfizer vacinnes becoming available, so they were holding them back to ensure those who had the first dose before Xmas would be able to have the second dose when they needed it.

If that is the case Drakeford certainly doesn't seem to have said that on record which is baffling

[230TE]

Drakeford said:

But the reason why it hasn't all been used in the first few days is because it's got to last us for six weeks.

FFS. It's a life-saving vaccine, not central heating oil. For those who think Boris Johnson is the most inept leader in the UK, I have bad news. The bar has just been raised, a lot.

[Vanden Saab]

WindyCommon said:

Mark Drakeford said:

“.. They're not given to us to use in a few days; that is the supply Wales has for the whole of January and the first week of February as well. And that's why it would never have been a sensible proposition to have suggested that we should have used the whole of that supply in the first few days.
That supply has to be evened out over the weeks for which it is available, so that we have vaccinators with work to do in every week able to make the very most of that supply.”

Bizarre.

Vaccinations should be conducted as quickly as resources allow. It doesn’t matter if vaccinators are under-utilised at times.

Drakeford’s explanation reads like some sort of British Leyland socialist idea that work should be “evened out” to ensure that there is work for the workers.

If Boris Johnson had said this, he’d have had the press and opposition all over him demanding a better explanation. Drakeford exists in a world where he has little if any effective challenge. And it shows.

Edited by WindyCommon on Monday 18th January 12:36

The Sun have picked up on it. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/13774196/wa...

Can you even imagine just how bad Covid would have been with idiots like this in charge in the whole of the UK.

[bazza white]

Vanden Saab said:

WindyCommon said:

Mark Drakeford said:

“.. They're not given to us to use in a few days; that is the supply Wales has for the whole of January and the first week of February as well. And that's why it would never have been a sensible proposition to have suggested that we should have used the whole of that supply in the first few days.
That supply has to be evened out over the weeks for which it is available, so that we have vaccinators with work to do in every week able to make the very most of that supply.”

Bizarre.

Vaccinations should be conducted as quickly as resources allow. It doesn’t matter if vaccinators are under-utilised at times.

Drakeford’s explanation reads like some sort of British Leyland socialist idea that work should be “evened out” to ensure that there is work for the workers.

If Boris Johnson had said this, he’d have had the press and opposition all over him demanding a better explanation. Drakeford exists in a world where he has little if any effective challenge. And it shows.

Edited by WindyCommon on Monday 18th January 12:36

The Sun have picked up on it. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/13774196/wa...

Can you even imagine just how bad Covid would have been with idiots like this in charge in the whole of the UK.

Strange how it has taken 4/5 days to pick up on it. I questioned it on a post last Thursday.

[saaby93]

Me too

bazza white said:

I didn't get Drakefords response. Shirley its better to have the people doing the vaccinations sat around doing nothing rather than the vaccine sat on the shelf doing nothing.

saaby93 said:

Sounds like the Stores keepers back in BL.
The whole point of having a store room and a store keeper was to have something in store.
They couldnt let anything out of store until they knew something was coming in to replace it.

A room stocked high with vaccines is better than an empty one

Kent Border Kenny said:

How?

What is the advantage in delaying giving the vaccinations?

saaby93 said:

They can go to a press conference and say they have 280,000 vaccine doses ready?
Sounds much better than - we have none left

Kent Border Kenny said:

The sad thing is that you could be right.

[saaby93]

Confirmed - only two places in Wales they can keep the pfizer vaccine
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-55704...
Hence why it's being kept safe and not being used

beeb said:

In a statement later, a Welsh Government spokesman said: "The Pfizer vaccine comes in large packs, which cannot be split and must be stored at ultra-low temperatures - at -70C. There are only two centres in Wales where we can keep them at this temperature.

[anonymous-user]

saaby93 said:

Confirmed - only two places in Wales they can keep the pfizer vaccine
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-55704...
Hence why it's being kept safe and not being used

beeb said:

In a statement later, a Welsh Government spokesman said: "The Pfizer vaccine comes in large packs, which cannot be split and must be stored at ultra-low temperatures - at -70C. There are only two centres in Wales where we can keep them at this temperature.

That just makes it even worse.

Surely there are enough people around those centres / people who can be taken to those centres to use them up?

What the hell are they going to do with them?

[saaby93]

Landcrab_Six said:

saaby93 said:

Confirmed - only two places in Wales they can keep the pfizer vaccine
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-55704...
Hence why it's being kept safe and not being used

beeb said:

In a statement later, a Welsh Government spokesman said: "The Pfizer vaccine comes in large packs, which cannot be split and must be stored at ultra-low temperatures - at -70C. There are only two centres in Wales where we can keep them at this temperature.

That just makes it even worse.

Surely there are enough people around those centres / people who can be taken to those centres to use them up?

What the hell are they going to do with them?

Remember theyve only had it in store since early December

They can keep it there until end of April to meet the vaccine roll out plans

Using emergency funding there's a factory to refurbish in Ebbw Vale they can rebrand as The Vaccine Repository

Here we go

Edited by saaby93 on Monday 18th January 17:39

[MG CHRIS]

Welsh labour have truly just shot themselves in the foot with this latest move. The excuse of we have only limited stock and we may run out earlier so lets spread it out is baffling. It opens them up to the critics to attack them. If they used them all up and didn't have new stock at least they can point fingers at either uk government or the drug company for the reason why they have run out.

At least getting those 200k+ vaccines that are stored are in the people that need them rather than being stored for the lame excuse of well it will keep the people administrating them busy for longer.

Ive kept a note of comments on the various facebook groups phw welsh government and during the start and the summer I would say they have had pretty good support however since the firebreak lockdown and the row over non essential items not being sold its flipped massively. This is another huge knock on support for them. If they get re-elected in may I have no hope for the country a call my home.

On another note over last week cases have been down a good 500 or so cases per day compared to the same period last week and deaths dropping too no signs of the new year parties everyone was talking about. Lets see if that continues over the rest of the month.

[robuk]

bazza white said:

Strange how it has taken 4/5 days to pick up on it. I questioned it on a post last Thursday.

There are more pressing issues, but media in and that looks at Wales is worth a new thread after all of this.

[SS2.]

Drakeford can try to extricate himself from the hole he has dug for himself but, from what I heard, he quite clearly said they were slowing down dispensing the vaccine because they didn't want the vaccinators standing around doing nothing.

If that was the case, it's a staggeringly stupid thing to say.

[foobies]

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/...

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme this morning, First Minister Mark Drakeford said that Wales’s supply of the Pfizer vaccine has to last until February and therefore is not being used all at once.

The First Minister said that there would be "no point" in using all the vaccine in the first week and that doing so would be "logistically very damaging".

He added: "The sensible thing to do is to use the vaccine you’ve got over the period that you’ve got it for so that your system can absorb it, they can go on working, that you don’t have people standing around with nothing to do."


A very public sector mindset. The guy is a complete fool.

[WindyCommon]

robuk said:

bazza white said:

Strange how it has taken 4/5 days to pick up on it. I questioned it on a post last Thursday.

There are more pressing issues, but media in and that looks at Wales is worth a new thread after all of this.

Agreed 100%.

Media scrutiny is a core component of a functioning democracy. When well executed (another matter!) it is an immediate and powerful constraint on those in public office. As someone who was on the wrong end of Daily Mail etc coverage - don't ask - for a period of time in a business leadership role I can tell you how powerful an influence it can be. No-one likes to see their less-than-perfect decisions raked over in the public domain. You concentrate and try harder when your personal reputation is threatened. If you haven't experienced it, you won't know.

Johnson, Hancock and Gove live with this threat every day. Drakeford and co in Wales don't. The huge public sector in Wales seems to have squeezed out any form of investigative or challenging journalism in the regional domain. And now the stats and maps we see every night on Sky News (for example) are for England only. No-one with a critical voice is looking - Wales has become someone else's problem. Thus an unintended consequence of devolved powers has been to create a government unfettered by some of the very constraints that make government effective. A perfect environment within which policy mistakes can be made and defended.

[phil_cardiff]

https://twitter.com/fmwales/status/135121151874717...

Drakeford replies. Why he didn't take this line on R4 I don't know. Modern politics requires media polish, whether you like it or not.

Welsh media getting stick here and rightly so. The papers are mainly foreign owned and BBC Wales doesn't seem to give a st.

[saaby93]

phil_cardiff said:

https://twitter.com/fmwales/status/135121151874717...

Drakeford replies. Why he didn't take this line on R4 I don't know. Modern politics requires media polish, whether you like it or not.

Welsh media getting stick here and rightly so. The papers are mainly foreign owned and BBC Wales doesn't seem to give a st.

Is he talking about the Oxford vaccine as it comes in rather than the Pfizer one kept safe in two locations?

[WindyCommon]

foobies said:

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/...

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme this morning, First Minister Mark Drakeford said that Wales’s supply of the Pfizer vaccine has to last until February and therefore is not being used all at once.

The First Minister said that there would be "no point" in using all the vaccine in the first week and that doing so would be "logistically very damaging".

He added: "The sensible thing to do is to use the vaccine you’ve got over the period that you’ve got it for so that your system can absorb it, they can go on working, that you don’t have people standing around with nothing to do."


A very public sector mindset. The guy is a complete fool.

Just to make sure that everyone reading this here is 100% clear on Drakeford's policy. Quote below is verbatim - I transcribed it myself.

Mark Drakeford speaking on Radio 4 today said:

The Pfizer vaccine we have has to last us until the beginning of February. We won't get another delivery of that until the very end of January or probably even the beginning of February. Therefore we have to use that over that six week stretch. It would be no point - I think - and certainly it would be logistically very damaging to try and use all of that in the first week and then to have all our vaccinators standing around with nothing to do for another month."

So he has confirmed what he told the WA last week. There is no mistake, no misunderstanding, no clarification needed. This is the policy decision that he and his colleagues have made. They have left thousands of vaccines sitting (in the two fridges they have procured...) in order to even out the workload of the vaccinators.

Sometimes we are offered clear windows of insight into people's abilities. This is one of those times. The story has been rumbling away all day. Plenty of time to organise and brief a U-turn, under cover of whatever smoke his comms advisers prefer. My guess is that he calculates that such a U-turn would be more politically damaging to him than keeping quiet. So the vaccines will stay in the fridges.

I am disgusted.

[wobert]

WindyCommon said:

foobies said:

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/...

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme this morning, First Minister Mark Drakeford said that Wales’s supply of the Pfizer vaccine has to last until February and therefore is not being used all at once.

The First Minister said that there would be "no point" in using all the vaccine in the first week and that doing so would be "logistically very damaging".

He added: "The sensible thing to do is to use the vaccine you’ve got over the period that you’ve got it for so that your system can absorb it, they can go on working, that you don’t have people standing around with nothing to do."


A very public sector mindset. The guy is a complete fool.

Just to make sure that everyone reading this here is 100% clear on Drakeford's policy. Quote below is verbatim - I transcribed it myself.

Mark Drakeford speaking on Radio 4 today said:

The Pfizer vaccine we have has to last us until the beginning of February. We won't get another delivery of that until the very end of January or probably even the beginning of February. Therefore we have to use that over that six week stretch. It would be no point - I think - and certainly it would be logistically very damaging to try and use all of that in the first week and then to have all our vaccinators standing around with nothing to do for another month."

So he has confirmed what he told the WA last week. There is no mistake, no misunderstanding, no clarification needed. This is the policy decision that he and his colleagues have made. They have left thousands of vaccines sitting (in the two fridges they have procured...) in order to even out the workload of the vaccinators.

Sometimes we are offered clear windows of insight into people's abilities. This is one of those times. The story has been rumbling away all day. Plenty of time to organise and brief a U-turn, under cover of whatever smoke his comms advisers prefer. My guess is that he calculates that such a U-turn would be more politically damaging to him than keeping quiet. So the vaccines will stay in the fridges.

I am disgusted.

Imho if the vaccines, the logistics and the staff are are in place to administer them, then to withhold them is nothing short of criminal.

If people die as a result of them being withheld, then he should be put in front of a judge and jury.....

[Welshbeef]

Given what he has said and is doing this policy will actually cost lives period.

He’s finished should be escorted out of office now.

Is anyone else in Welsh Labour spouting this bks?

[b0rk]

WindyCommon said:

So he has confirmed what he told the WA last week. There is no mistake, no misunderstanding, no clarification needed. This is the policy decision that he and his colleagues have made. They have left thousands of vaccines sitting (in the two fridges they have procured...) in order to even out the workload of the vaccinators.

Sometimes we are offered clear windows of insight into people's abilities. This is one of those times. The story has been rumbling away all day. Plenty of time to organise and brief a U-turn, under cover of whatever smoke his comms advisers prefer. My guess is that he calculates that such a U-turn would be more politically damaging to him than keeping quiet. So the vaccines will stay in the fridges.

I am disgusted.

I think it might be more fundamental than leaving them in the fridge, if you look at the numbers and percentages in the BBC piece posted earlier the strategy is not just leave vaccine in the freezer but to also focus on the lowest hanging fruit with the Pfizer vaccine and use AZ for the harder to reach groups.

BBC said:

How are the various health boards doing?

As of Monday, the Cardiff and Vale health board said it had vaccinated more than 24,000 people, including nearly 19,000 health, social care and care home staff, nearly 600 care home residents and nearly 3,000 other people aged over 80.

Cwm Taf Morgannwg health board in south Wales said it had vaccinated nearly 17,000 people as of Friday, and aimed to give all 100,000 people in the top priority groups at least a first dose by mid-February.

The Hywel Dda health board serving west Wales said on Monday it had given more than 18,000 vaccinations, including jabs to 42% of healthcare workers, 38% of care home staff, 25% of care home residents and just under 9% of other people over 80.

Powys Teaching health board said letters should arrive by Tuesday to everyone aged over 80 inviting them to get a vaccination, with more than 7,000 people in the priority groups having received their first dose.

The Swansea Bay board said it was "on target" to vaccinate all care home residents with a first dose by the end of January and that all over-80s would be offered a vaccine "over the coming weeks"

In north Wales, the Betsi Cadwaladr board said it aimed to vaccinate 90% of the priority groups by the end of January.

In south east Wales, the Aneurin Bevan board's most recent update from 11 January said that in its 94 care homes for elderly people all residents had been vaccinated in 34 homes and all staff in 63.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-55704017

Cardiff & Vale 15% of all doses are care home residents and 80+ the rest health workers. The Aneurin Beven update has a really interesting double speak in the phraseology note the number of alls highlighted. More care home staff have been vaccinated than residents.

If you look at the numbers and ratio's is quite obvious that Pfizer is sat in the freezer because the vaccinators are not taking it to care homes and possibly not using in the community PCN to same extent as AZ.

The WAG rollout will only scale up once more volume becomes available from AZ, maybe they are planning on saving Pfizer for second doses at 12 weeks. The idea of saving a "large delivery" from late Dec and spreading it until mid feb doesn't match the actual consumption, more jabs should have gone in more arms if the plan was consume the Dec Pfizer stock by early Feb.