Derek Chauvin Trial
Discussion
Slaav said:
What has this to do with DC? Lots. I think he was 100% guilty of the middle charge from what I saw, watched personally and have read. He may manage to appeal the Murder charge (and the others) but he does seem to have killed George Floyd.
Was it racist? Possibly. Unconscious bias and maybe even contempt for a Criminal - highly likely. Exacerbated by GF being black - unfortunately quite possible but that wasn’t on trial nor did it play any major part INSIDE the courtroom.
DC seems to have been a poor excuse for a Police Officer. As a Veteran officer, he is unfortunately likely to have some racial bias; unconscious or otherwise. Should it be the main issue on this thread? I don’t think so. Should it be discussed openly? Definitely!
From what I watched inside the court, racism was not mentioned. There may be some 'institutionalised racism' in Minneapolis (I do not know) but from watching many police programs such as 'The First 48' based largely in Tulsa and Atlanta and some New Orleans, the police look to be well represented by black officers on patrol and in the homicide departments. Was it racist? Possibly. Unconscious bias and maybe even contempt for a Criminal - highly likely. Exacerbated by GF being black - unfortunately quite possible but that wasn’t on trial nor did it play any major part INSIDE the courtroom.
DC seems to have been a poor excuse for a Police Officer. As a Veteran officer, he is unfortunately likely to have some racial bias; unconscious or otherwise. Should it be the main issue on this thread? I don’t think so. Should it be discussed openly? Definitely!
Someone linked to an article (above) of the owner of the club where DC worked outside and GF inside. She did not know for sure if they knew each other. The telling thing she said was that when there was a sign of trouble DC would get out the MACE and generally overreact to the situations. She also said he was afraid. This for me is a sign of DC's make up.
People who are afraid of violence or getting hurt tend to lash out first to protect themselves. GF was a big lad and after the struggle in the back of the patrol car I think DC decided to take decisive action so he would not be punched, kicked or harmed and had 3 colleagues to manage GF. I really do think there was an element of fear that probably drove him to doing what he did.
I do not condone any of his actions.
N7GTX said:
Slaav said:
What has this to do with DC? Lots. I think he was 100% guilty of the middle charge from what I saw, watched personally and have read. He may manage to appeal the Murder charge (and the others) but he does seem to have killed George Floyd.
Was it racist? Possibly. Unconscious bias and maybe even contempt for a Criminal - highly likely. Exacerbated by GF being black - unfortunately quite possible but that wasn’t on trial nor did it play any major part INSIDE the courtroom.
DC seems to have been a poor excuse for a Police Officer. As a Veteran officer, he is unfortunately likely to have some racial bias; unconscious or otherwise. Should it be the main issue on this thread? I don’t think so. Should it be discussed openly? Definitely!
From what I watched inside the court, racism was not mentioned. There may be some 'institutionalised racism' in Minneapolis (I do not know) but from watching many police programs such as 'The First 48' based largely in Tulsa and Atlanta and some New Orleans, the police look to be well represented by black officers on patrol and in the homicide departments. Was it racist? Possibly. Unconscious bias and maybe even contempt for a Criminal - highly likely. Exacerbated by GF being black - unfortunately quite possible but that wasn’t on trial nor did it play any major part INSIDE the courtroom.
DC seems to have been a poor excuse for a Police Officer. As a Veteran officer, he is unfortunately likely to have some racial bias; unconscious or otherwise. Should it be the main issue on this thread? I don’t think so. Should it be discussed openly? Definitely!
Someone linked to an article (above) of the owner of the club where DC worked outside and GF inside. She did not know for sure if they knew each other. The telling thing she said was that when there was a sign of trouble DC would get out the MACE and generally overreact to the situations. She also said he was afraid. This for me is a sign of DC's make up.
People who are afraid of violence or getting hurt tend to lash out first to protect themselves. GF was a big lad and after the struggle in the back of the patrol car I think DC decided to take decisive action so he would not be punched, kicked or harmed and had 3 colleagues to manage GF. I really do think there was an element of fear that probably drove him to doing what he did.
I do not condone any of his actions.
NDA said:
The point might have been that racism starts out by labelling people by their colour. .
Labelling people by their colour in a negative way you probably meant, but I think goinground pretending to be oblivious to people's ethnicity in a mega-woke way really doesn't fool anyone.
carinaman said:
Should more have been made about them working together doing security at the same restaurant?:
https://www.capitalxtra.com/news/george-floyd-deat...
Regarding systemic racism and BLM is that BBC interview with a former US Cop relevant to the discussion? Seems there's already grounds for an appeal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN6wNpsPEso
George Floyd had not lived in Minneapolis for 17 years.https://www.capitalxtra.com/news/george-floyd-deat...
Regarding systemic racism and BLM is that BBC interview with a former US Cop relevant to the discussion? Seems there's already grounds for an appeal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN6wNpsPEso
Slaav said:
Firstly I must state that in no way whatsoever is the following anecdote trying to lessen or belittle the issues many races, colours, creeds etc face regularly and on occasion relentlessly!!
We managed to escape down to the South of France last Aug/Sept during relaxed Covid restrictions. On returning to UK via car/Eurotunnel, we still had 14 days quarantine so all still very ‘real’.
On the way back up through Champagne where we stayed overnight, four of us - two middle aged white couples - we had dinner. Packed restaurant as not everywhere was open. After a while, a French couple were seated beside us. I was conscious they moved/shuffled their table a bit further away from us. The were the last table by the very wide walkway. The tables were not rammed on top of each other! I ignored it but then a little while later, they upped and moved elsewhere in the restaurant and right into the middle, surrounded by others.
Yep! The point is they moved because we were English/British. We assumed due to being tourists and Covid concerns although they moved into a more crowded area.
At the end of our meal, my wife twigged what had happened and we asked the waiter - he embarrassingly confirmed our thoughts/fears. My Mrs was furious. She wanted to find them as she was so upset and angry at their ‘judging us’. They had already left. Waiter was very apologetic but to this day, it upsets the wife that people made assumptions and wanted to get away from us as we were Brits.
I know it isn’t comparable - by several orders of magnitude but the point is that I really cannot imagine what it must be like being treated ‘differently’ and being judged by others. The fact that we are/were fastidious about hygiene and cleanliness isn’t relevant. ‘She’ heard our accents and moved. It left a bad taste and as above, it still upsets the wife.
I cannot ever imagine what it must be like to constantly perceive racism, stereotyping, profiling etc. I try to empathise (cannot imagine what it is truly like) and behave accordingly. It must be absolutely awful. It must wear you/one down. Exhausting.
If being on the receiving end of even occasional bias or negative behaviour leads to an ‘over sensitive’ response or as some call it an ‘overreaction’, I totally understand it and don’t bat an eyelid. I am concerned about massive overreaction and certain Politicising of systemic issues but I reckon the vast majority of people who have experienced negative profiling, racism and bigoted behaviour pretty much have a ‘free pass’ to get pissed off with it.
It must be awful and people who shrug, laugh it off or belittle the issues are as abhorrent as the acts themselves.
I also believe unconscious bias does exist unfortunately. It shouldn’t but does IMO.
As before, I cannot possibly imagine how awful it must be to be on the receiving end of such abhorrent treatment/behaviour - even if hopefully rare these days.....
What has this to do with DC? Lots. I think he was 100% guilty of the middle charge from what I saw, watched personally and have read. He may manage to appeal the Murder charge (and the others) but he does seem to have killed George Floyd.
Was it racist? Possibly. Unconscious bias and maybe even contempt for a Criminal - highly likely. Exacerbated by GF being black - unfortunately quite possible but that wasn’t on trial nor did it play any major part INSIDE the courtroom.
DC seems to have been a poor excuse for a Police Officer. As a Veteran officer, he is unfortunately likely to have some racial bias; unconscious or otherwise. Should it be the main issue on this thread? I don’t think so. Should it be discussed openly? Definitely!
My god! How dare someone move away from you!We managed to escape down to the South of France last Aug/Sept during relaxed Covid restrictions. On returning to UK via car/Eurotunnel, we still had 14 days quarantine so all still very ‘real’.
On the way back up through Champagne where we stayed overnight, four of us - two middle aged white couples - we had dinner. Packed restaurant as not everywhere was open. After a while, a French couple were seated beside us. I was conscious they moved/shuffled their table a bit further away from us. The were the last table by the very wide walkway. The tables were not rammed on top of each other! I ignored it but then a little while later, they upped and moved elsewhere in the restaurant and right into the middle, surrounded by others.
Yep! The point is they moved because we were English/British. We assumed due to being tourists and Covid concerns although they moved into a more crowded area.
At the end of our meal, my wife twigged what had happened and we asked the waiter - he embarrassingly confirmed our thoughts/fears. My Mrs was furious. She wanted to find them as she was so upset and angry at their ‘judging us’. They had already left. Waiter was very apologetic but to this day, it upsets the wife that people made assumptions and wanted to get away from us as we were Brits.
I know it isn’t comparable - by several orders of magnitude but the point is that I really cannot imagine what it must be like being treated ‘differently’ and being judged by others. The fact that we are/were fastidious about hygiene and cleanliness isn’t relevant. ‘She’ heard our accents and moved. It left a bad taste and as above, it still upsets the wife.
I cannot ever imagine what it must be like to constantly perceive racism, stereotyping, profiling etc. I try to empathise (cannot imagine what it is truly like) and behave accordingly. It must be absolutely awful. It must wear you/one down. Exhausting.
If being on the receiving end of even occasional bias or negative behaviour leads to an ‘over sensitive’ response or as some call it an ‘overreaction’, I totally understand it and don’t bat an eyelid. I am concerned about massive overreaction and certain Politicising of systemic issues but I reckon the vast majority of people who have experienced negative profiling, racism and bigoted behaviour pretty much have a ‘free pass’ to get pissed off with it.
It must be awful and people who shrug, laugh it off or belittle the issues are as abhorrent as the acts themselves.
I also believe unconscious bias does exist unfortunately. It shouldn’t but does IMO.
As before, I cannot possibly imagine how awful it must be to be on the receiving end of such abhorrent treatment/behaviour - even if hopefully rare these days.....
What has this to do with DC? Lots. I think he was 100% guilty of the middle charge from what I saw, watched personally and have read. He may manage to appeal the Murder charge (and the others) but he does seem to have killed George Floyd.
Was it racist? Possibly. Unconscious bias and maybe even contempt for a Criminal - highly likely. Exacerbated by GF being black - unfortunately quite possible but that wasn’t on trial nor did it play any major part INSIDE the courtroom.
DC seems to have been a poor excuse for a Police Officer. As a Veteran officer, he is unfortunately likely to have some racial bias; unconscious or otherwise. Should it be the main issue on this thread? I don’t think so. Should it be discussed openly? Definitely!
Truly shocking.
FWIW said:
...but your attempted analogy was bizarre.
Back to DC - I read above what GF’s lawyer thinks re sentencing. I must watch the video linked but it seemed weird giving strong views pre sentencing when it is just down to the judge?
ACCYSTAN said:
Juror 52 now exposed as a Black Lives Matter activist, encouraging others to get on juries to "spark some change".How very impartial.
mybrainhurts said:
ACCYSTAN said:
Juror 52 now exposed as a Black Lives Matter activist, encouraging others to get on juries to "spark some change".How very impartial.
N7GTX said:
mybrainhurts said:
ACCYSTAN said:
Juror 52 now exposed as a Black Lives Matter activist, encouraging others to get on juries to "spark some change".How very impartial.
This is him on the right. How anyone can question his objectivity is beyond me.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9539447/C...
"Questions have been raised about the impartiality of one of the 12 jurors who convicted Derek Chauvin of murder"
So sounds like he was one of the jury.
He needs to be prosecuted for lying. Also, his stupid actions have a possibility of being counterproductive. Chauvin will cite this in an appeal, along with numerous other things, and then petition that he can't ever get a fair trail, and be set free.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9539447/C...
"Questions have been raised about the impartiality of one of the 12 jurors who convicted Derek Chauvin of murder"
So sounds like he was one of the jury.
He needs to be prosecuted for lying. Also, his stupid actions have a possibility of being counterproductive. Chauvin will cite this in an appeal, along with numerous other things, and then petition that he can't ever get a fair trail, and be set free.
Stigproducts said:
his stupid actions have a possibility of being counterproductive. Chauvin will cite this in an appeal, along with numerous other things, and then petition that he can't ever get a fair trail, and be set free.
Agreed - I can't help but think that this is grounds for the defence to ask for the verdict to be set aside. I remember a few years ago when Tommy Robison stupidly turned up outside a court with his phone and everyone was screaming how he had endangered a trail.
Now we had a trial that it turns out that they had the equivalent of a EDL member on the jury, every person and media outlet on the planet had their phones outside and even inside the court, all giving their opinion on guilt. But this time "Totally, fine nothing to see here, how could you even consider it would unfairly affect the trial?".
Now we had a trial that it turns out that they had the equivalent of a EDL member on the jury, every person and media outlet on the planet had their phones outside and even inside the court, all giving their opinion on guilt. But this time "Totally, fine nothing to see here, how could you even consider it would unfairly affect the trial?".
Does it matter if 1/12th (8.3%) of the Jury was made up of BLM supporters? If it’s supposed to be a jury of your peers, 8-9% probably underrepresents the popular support of BLM.
https://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/constitutional...
https://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/constitutional...
MrMan001 said:
Does it matter if 1/12th (8.3%) of the Jury was made up of BLM supporters? If it’s supposed to be a jury of your peers, 8-9% probably underrepresents the popular support of BLM.
https://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/constitutional...
It's supposed to be a random selection of impartial people. https://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/constitutional...
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