RMT union vote for a national rail strike
Discussion
monkfish1 said:
My "idea" wont necessarily, nor should, lead to a similar fiasco. TSRs or ESR's are because maintenance HASNT been done at the required time. Reduction of maintenance in line with a lower targeted standard is something different. The gauge corner craking situation occured precisely because maintenance wasnt done that should have been done.. Im not proposing to abandon maintenance, but to do the right maintenance based on use AND budgetry limitations. With respect, you need to seperate the 2 issues. Your conflating of 2 seperate issues is everything thats wrong with the debate.
You make my point for me.At the time of the GCC balls-up I can guarantee you that those ‘managing’ the situation thought their planned and budgeted maintenance was up to the task. I didn’t say abandon maintenance and nor did anyone else leading up to the issues.
No conflation, just an intrinsic link.
monkfish1 said:
Journey time increasing five fold is just exageration, and based on your theroy of speed restrictions, which as per above doesnt apply. Does the GWML need to be 125mph? If it was 100 or even 80mph, what would happen? A few minutes extra on journey times. Dont be sensationalist. Doesnt help.
With all due respect, I was there, I witnessed it, I drove trains that took 7 hours + to complete what was normally a 90 minute journey.Some had it much worse.
No sensationalism just fact.
monkfish1 said:
Again "vast swathes" of the network are not at saturation point. Even less post covid. There are "some" parts at saturation. Again, less sensationalisim would be good.”
Try running a freight service between Peterborough and Edinburgh. Try getting a freight service through Leeds, York or Newcastle. Pick a time between 0600 and 2000. Then get back to me.There’s a reason for HS2, for all its failures. It is t to save ‘three minutes to Birmingham’…
monkfish1 said:
And again, you seem to be out of date on passenger rail. All under DFT control on cost + contracts. Any extra profit goes straight back to the DFT. Time to stop peddeling the "fat cats taking all the profits" line. Its over. Its now to all intents under state control. EXACTLY what the unions have been pushing for all along.
.Show me where I’ve ‘pedalled that line’ please.
Perhaps you’ve misread or misunderstood when I mentioned the railway has skewed too far to ‘profit’ in the recent past, leading us directly to this situation.
Of course the majority of the TOCs are now ‘in house’ - shall we call that the public purse bailing out the private sector again?
monkfish1 said:
The "balance" as you call it is for the government to decide. They have decided to spend less on rail. That means less money. Combined with less income, inevitably means less "railway". I say again, do you really think its resonable for the public to continue to fund the railway "as was" even when there isnt the demand that there was?
And to the start we return.Government make their decisions.
Staff, through Union representation, decide if it’s safe and fair to their members.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not.
It will all come out in the wash.
monkfish1 said:
Privatisation was done. We cant change the past, much as we might like to. However, the starved of funds, again, is a nonsense. Subsidy, even pre-covid is running at something like 5 times the level it was under BR.
Say again???You need to re-read the post you’ve quoted.
monkfish1 said:
I think you spend too much time listening to uninformed mess room claptrap, rather than understanding the bigger and true picture. And would do well to understand how one decides what maintenance to do to an assest, whatever it might be, railway related or otherwise.
Your patronising tone is noted.There are quite a few people such as yourself who understand fully the maintenance regimes and the correct way to implement them.
And then some got it wrong, some randoms died and we have ex-managers lucky to escape prison sentences.
Hyperbole?
More sensationalist b
ks?monkfish1 said:
Going on strike makes it more unreliable. No long term good will come of it.
We’ll see won’t we?I know there are millions of workers out there with benefits and far safer places of employment who were no doubt told exactly the same thing by a 1950s version of you.
Vasco said:
You should be delighted today at the thought of RMT now also being on strike on the 18th and 20th August.
Well done all of you, that should help the confidence in railways.....
I’m nonplussed.Well done all of you, that should help the confidence in railways.....
Not my Union, not my fight.
I am, however, delighted in the number who took part in the ballot, the percentage of ‘yes’ votes, the way they’re standing strong and the ease with which their Leader has calmly taken on all-comers.
If it’s important to you, polling seems to indicate a strong backing from the general public too.
Who knows, perhaps they’re Union members themselves waiting to see the outcome of all of this before they too decide it’s time to take a stand? The signs are there if you care to look for them.
Vasco said:
At least Scotrail has announced that it is shortly returning to their full timetable.
It’s not. It’s a st cut down effort where they took the previous timetable and basically hacked a load of trains out of it and spun it as “fit for the future” It does, however, mean it might be possible to get a train after 7pm again, assuming ASLEF members can be persuaded to do overtime rather than sit in the sunshine. I won’t be travelling at night until at least a couple of weeks have passed without significant numbers of cancellations.alangla said:
Vasco said:
At least Scotrail has announced that it is shortly returning to their full timetable.
It’s not. It’s a st cut down effort where they took the previous timetable and basically hacked a load of trains out of it and spun it as “fit for the future” It does, however, mean it might be possible to get a train after 7pm again, assuming ASLEF members can be persuaded to do overtime rather than sit in the sunshine. I won’t be travelling at night until at least a couple of weeks have passed without significant numbers of cancellations.legzr1 said:
Vasco said:
You should be delighted today at the thought of RMT now also being on strike on the 18th and 20th August.
Well done all of you, that should help the confidence in railways.....
I’m nonplussed.Well done all of you, that should help the confidence in railways.....
Not my Union, not my fight.
I am, however, delighted in the number who took part in the ballot, the percentage of ‘yes’ votes, the way they’re standing strong and the ease with which their Leader has calmly taken on all-comers.
If it’s important to you, polling seems to indicate a strong backing from the general public too.
Who knows, perhaps they’re Union members themselves waiting to see the outcome of all of this before they too decide it’s time to take a stand? The signs are there if you care to look for them.
It's got all the hallmarks of a failing industry with staff that can't see the bigger picture.
I expect more of the same as before. The bulk of the public shrug their shoulders and carry on. Those who need to travel drive, those who can avoid driving do. Everybody needs the trains less.
Longer terms train companies lose money and presumably, eventually go bust. Gov takes over and cuts services and people, because less services. Staff end up looking around confused why they don't have a job.
I expect more of the same as before. The bulk of the public shrug their shoulders and carry on. Those who need to travel drive, those who can avoid driving do. Everybody needs the trains less.
Longer terms train companies lose money and presumably, eventually go bust. Gov takes over and cuts services and people, because less services. Staff end up looking around confused why they don't have a job.
happy to take two years of subsidies, yet the passengers haven't bounced back, there have been massive changes in train usage, yet the unions are living in the 1970s. I won't lose any sleep when over the next few years a lot will be got rid off, as there just are enough passengers to justify the numbers.
The unions should be fighting to get passengers back on the trains not driving them further away.
The unions should be fighting to get passengers back on the trains not driving them further away.
Vasco said:
They announced today that 700 extra trains restart from next Wednesday, 20th July.
Yes: that’s just moving from what’s basically the Covid lockdown timetable that’s in place just now to the “fit for the future” timetable. It’s not even close to the 2019 timetable. Even with these “improvements” there’s still going to be stations on the Glasgow suburban lines that are going to have 1 train an hour.Ouroboros said:
happy to take two years of subsidies, yet the passengers haven't bounced back, there have been massive changes in train usage, yet the unions are living in the 1970s. I won't lose any sleep when over the next few years a lot will be got rid off, as there just are enough passengers to justify the numbers.
The unions should be fighting to get passengers back on the trains not driving them further away.
Those figures are somewhat out of date. Just before the strikes rail usage was up to 90% of the pre-pandemic level, and thats at a time when many train companies are offering a reduced service and shorter trains.The unions should be fighting to get passengers back on the trains not driving them further away.
Chrisgr31 said:
Just before the strikes rail usage was up to 90% of the pre-pandemic level,
Citation.The published report for this year is 62% of 2019 levels.
https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/2064/passenger...
Loads of evidence train passengers are down, station usage, actual train passengers.
So you have workers who have worked for 2.5 years full pay, against an average of 25% passenger usage of pre covid levels, complaining of being poorly paid. They Should be grateful to have a job in the first place.
Lets get real, fewer people use trains , and this is the current trend.
Edited by Ouroboros on Friday 15th July 23:05
Ouroboros said:
Citation.
The published report for this year is 62% of 2019 levels.
https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/2064/passenger...
Loads of evidence train passengers are down, station usage, actual train passengers.
So you have workers who have worked for 2.5 years full pay, against an average of 25% passenger usage of pre covid levels, complaining of being poorly paid. They Should be grateful to have a job in the first place.
Lets get real, fewer people use trains , and this is the current trend.
That's not up to date.The published report for this year is 62% of 2019 levels.
https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/2064/passenger...
Loads of evidence train passengers are down, station usage, actual train passengers.
So you have workers who have worked for 2.5 years full pay, against an average of 25% passenger usage of pre covid levels, complaining of being poorly paid. They Should be grateful to have a job in the first place.
Lets get real, fewer people use trains , and this is the current trend.
Edited by Ouroboros on Friday 15th July 23:05
Go and stand on a mainline station or travel on the trains and you will see thay are packed. That includes the branch lines.
People ARE back on trains no matter what the statistics say.
kestral said:
That's not up to date.
Go and stand on a mainline station or travel on the trains and you will see thay are packed. That includes the branch lines.
People ARE back on trains no matter what the statistics say.
I would agree, but only for Friday-Monday on many lines. Some are much quieter Mon-Thu and, of course, there are often less trains too.Go and stand on a mainline station or travel on the trains and you will see thay are packed. That includes the branch lines.
People ARE back on trains no matter what the statistics say.
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