Miami school shooting
Discussion
DurianIceCream said:
JuniorD said:
If teachers being armed is such a good idea, how come they don’t seem to bring their own weapons to work already?
Schools are generally gun free zones. It would be illegal for a teacher to bring a firearm onto campus. Law enforcement are permitted to bring firearms into a gun free zone. Mass killers aren't permitted to, but they do it anyway. Matt Harper said:
If by 'school zone', you mean on a school campus, that is absolutely NOT the case in Florida.
No I mean a gun free school zone. The poster I was replying too said "gun free zone". Most schools (as you probably know this is for the benefit of others) have a 1000 ft exclusion zone around them where you can not carry a loaded firearm. The majority of states allow CCW holders to carry firearms in this zone. This is because it would be almost impossible to navigate around the gun free zones.
Most states prohibit CCW in schools, bars, courts, police stations and ports.
That said there are a few states that allow CCW in schools.
DurianIceCream said:
gavsdavs said:
No, it's not bullying, it's simply calling the NRA out for what they are. The NRA operate to put weapons which serve no other function into the hands of the general public. What beneficial, social function do they perform ? You don't use AR-15s for target shooting or home defence.
AR-15s are just semi-automatic rifles. You can get them in Canada, you can get them in France, you can get them pretty much anywhere except the UK. They are used for target shooting. There is even a straight-pull version in the UK.... which is used for target shooting, even here in the UK. They are used for target shooting in the US. The NRA is actually middle-of-the-road as far as gun lobby groups go. If you want to see extreme, have a look at the GOA - Gun Owners of America.
As I noted before, the NRA doesn't have _that_ many members. They are successful as they are organised and the do represent the views of a lot of Americans.
Efbe said:
how so?
As above already stated California, New York, New Jersey and a few others have severe restrictions on "assault rifles". We don't have these restrictions.From 2018 for example in California they have to field strip AR15s just to remove the mag (10 round max). Restrictions on things like collapsing stocks, flash hiders, etc. You also have to provide photographic evidence of the rifle being compliant when you register it.
New York its 5 round max.
jmorgan said:
And then reading that people just pop across the state line to wherever it is easier and less stringent and "import" that way.
Cant really do that if you live in Cali. Possession of an unregistered "assault rifle" is a felony, most people really don't want that.Gun show loop hole slowing being closed on a county by county basis. Most gun shows now follow a similar rule anyway, you have to at least be a state resident to purchase. Some states have closed that as I said.
Dr Jekyll said:
red_slr said:
Cant really do that if you live in Cali. Possession of an unregistered "assault rifle" is a felony, most people really don't want that.
But how is 'assault rifle' defined?There are three categories of assault weapons under California law:
◦Category One: Firearms specified on the original Roberti-Roos assault weapons list. (Pen. Code, § 30510, subds. (a),(b), and (c).)
◦Category Two: Firearms specified on the AK and AR-15 series weapons, pdf. (Pen. Code, § 30510, subds. (e) and (f).)
◦Category Three: Firearms defined as assault weapons based on specific generic characteristics, often called “SB 23 assault weapons.” (Pen. Code, § 30515.)
2.What are AK and AR-15 series weapons?
These assault weapons are listed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) in the California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5499.
3.What is considered a .50 BMG rifle under California law?
A .50 BMG rifle is defined as a centerfire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an assault weapon or a machinegun as defined by Penal Code section 16880. A ".50 BMG cartridge" means a cartridge that is designed and intended to be fired from a centerfire rifle and that meets all of the following criteria:
a.It has an overall length of 5.54 inches from the base to the tip of the bullet.
b.The bullet diameter for the cartridge is from .510 to, and including, .511 inch.
c.The case base diameter for the cartridge is from .800 inch to, and including, .804 inch.
d.The cartridge case length is 3.91 inches. (Pen. Code, §§ 30525, 30530.)
4.Can assault weapons and .50 BMG rifles still be registered?
Generally, no. The public registration periods for assault weapons and .50 BMG rifles ended several years ago as follows:
◦Category 1 AW: must have been owned by 12/31/1991 and registered by 03/31/1992
◦Category 2 AW: must have been owned by 08/16/2000 and registered by 01/23/2001
◦Category 3 AW: must have been owned by 12/31/1999 and registered by 12/31/2000
◦.50 BMG: must have been owned by 12/31/2004 and registered by April 30, 2006
However, Penal Code sections 30625 and 30630 provide an exception for specified peace officers with written authorization from the head of their employing agency.
5.I already paid the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee and went through a DOJ record check when I purchased the firearm. Does that satisfy the registration requirement?
No. The DROS fee only covers the cost to determine whether or not a purchaser is prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm at the time of the transaction. Additionally, prior to January 1, 2014, rifle or shotgun purchaser information could not be retained by DOJ.
6.How can I get confirmation of my AW/.50 BMG rifle registration?
You should have received confirmation from DOJ at the time you registered the AW/.50 BMG rifle. To receive another copy of the registration confirmation, contact DOJ at (916) 227-2153.
7.Are there any restrictions on the use of a registered assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle?
Yes. A person who has a registered assault weapon or registered .50 BMG rifle may possess it only under the conditions specified in Penal Code section 30945.
8.Can I travel outside of California with a registered assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle and then bring it back into California?
Yes, as a long as it is transported in accordance with Penal Code sections 16850, 25610, and 30945, subdivision (g).
9.Can I take a registered assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle to a gunsmith for repairs?
Yes. However, you cannot leave it with the gunsmith unless he or she holds an assault weapon permit or BMG rifle permit respectively. Otherwise, you must remain with the firearm while it is being repaired. If the firearm must be shipped to the manufacturer for repairs, a firearms dealer with an assault weapon permit or .50 BMG rifle permit must handle the shipping.
10.Can I pawn my registered assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle?
No. Neither assault weapons nor .50 BMG rifles can be pawned.
11.Can I sell or transfer my assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle to a family member?
No. Neither assault weapons nor .50 BMG rifles can be sold or transferred to a family member. Registered assault weapons or Registered .50 BMG rifles can be sold to certain California Peace Officers with written approval from the head of their law enforcement agency. See Penal Code sections 30625 and 30630 for more information. These transfers would have to occur at a licensed gun dealer that has a Dangerous Weapons Permit. An average gun store cannot accept and transfer these types of weapons (Pen. Code, § 30910).
12.Can I keep a registered assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle that I inherited?
No. Pursuant to California Penal Code sections 30915 and 30935, any person who obtains title to a registered assault weapon or registered .50 BMG rifle by bequest or intestate succession shall, within 90 days (for assault weapons) or 180 days (for .50 BMG rifles) do one or more of the following:
a.Render the weapon permanently inoperable.
b.Sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer who has a permit from DOJ to purchase assault weapons/.50 BMG rifles.
c.Obtain a permit from DOJ to possess assault weapons/.50 BMG rifles, in the same manner as specified in Penal Code sections 32650 – 32670.
d.Lawfully remove the weapon from this state.
13.What should I do if I don’t want to keep my assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle?
If you have an unregistered assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle, you must relinquish it to law enforcement.
If you have a registered assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle, you have the following options:
a.Sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer who has a permit from DOJ to purchase assault weapons/.50 BMG rifles.
b.Make arrangements with your local police department or sheriff's office to relinquish your assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle. Call first. Do not go to the police department or sheriff’s office without first making prior arrangements.
c.Lawfully remove the weapon from this state.
d.Render the weapon permanently inoperable.
14.If the characteristics that make my firearm a category 3 assault weapon are removed, can I cancel the registration? Can I sell it as regular (non-assault weapon) firearm?
Yes. If the defining characteristics establishing a firearm as a category 3 assault weapon are removed, it is no longer an assault weapon and the registration may be canceled. However, once the registration is canceled, you can never replace the characteristic(s) that make it an assault weapon, or you will be in possession of an illegal weapon. To cancel an assault weapon registration, contact DOJ at (916) 227-2153. Once the registration has been canceled, the firearm can be sold or transferred like any other firearm (non-assault weapon).
15.What is the Kasler v. Lockyer California Supreme Court decision and what does it do?
This court decision upholds the constitutionality of the Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989. As a result, DOJ is obligated to enforce the statute with respect to identification of category 3 assault weapons (AK and AR-15 series weapons). These assault weapons are listed in the California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5499.
Efbe said:
red_slr said:
Efbe said:
how so?
As above already stated California, New York, New Jersey and a few others have severe restrictions on "assault rifles". We don't have these restrictions.From 2018 for example in California they have to field strip AR15s just to remove the mag (10 round max). Restrictions on things like collapsing stocks, flash hiders, etc. You also have to provide photographic evidence of the rifle being compliant when you register it.
New York its 5 round max.
You have a licence for type of firearm, rifle, long barrel pistol, shotgun etc.
Then that type of firearm is restricted to what calibre you have on your FAC.
So I have, for example, .223 rifle as one of my slots and that means I can have any rifle in .223.
The only restriction is it must not be semi automatic unless its rim fire.
There are no restrictions on magazines or stocks, flash hiders etc. I can also have a moderator over the counter so long as I have it on my FAC.
Efbe said:
trying to keep up here, but struggling as a non-gun person
so in the UK, I thought the process to get a gun is to get a good safe for it, then apply for a certificate for which you need a clean record etc.
Does this mean it's as easy to get a rifle as a shotgun licence?
Shot gun certificate. Install safe. Fill in form, home visit to check security, doctors and referees contacted. Plod post out certificate, you can buy as many shotguns as you want. Certificate lasts 5 years and renewal home visit to check security and serial numbers on shotguns. Whole process takes 3-6 months.so in the UK, I thought the process to get a gun is to get a good safe for it, then apply for a certificate for which you need a clean record etc.
Does this mean it's as easy to get a rifle as a shotgun licence?
Firearms certificate in the case of target shooting (pest control different), apply to club. Complete 3-6 month probationary period. Complete safe firearms handling course. Become full member of club. Install safe for firearms and possibly safe for ammo. Fill in form, home visit to check security, doctors and referees contacted. Club contacted to confirm membership. During home visit police will ask why you want each firearm and why you want x number of bullets. Police may deny you certain quantities of ammo or deny you certain types of rifle if they feel you do not have good reason. Certificate arrives by post and lasts 5 years. Can only buy firearms listed on certificate and can only hold set number of bullets as agreed at visit. Upon renewal plod will look at your club membership and check you have been visiting regularly. They will then look at what ammo you have been buying and then decide if you still have good reason. Whole process takes 6-12 months.
HTH
Its still like that in a lot of places. You just don't see it in the media.
In some states every other car will have a revolver in the glove box, mostly due to the wildlife you might encounter at rest stops or if you break down.
People forget that its a dangerous country in the cities but in the sticks its just as bad but not humans!
The under lever is a classic American rifle and the vast, vast majority of people see no issue with under levers. Even those that oppose AR15s etc.
Thing is you get yourself on the wrong end of a 444 or 30-06 under lever and you will know about it. Can fire off 6-10 rounds of very, very high power ammunition in short order. They are still used to hunt deer at <200 yards today and will drop a big deer like a sack of you know what. But for some reason they don't see them as dangerous more of a part of their history. I always found that interesting and it really does go to show that looks and hype play a big part in this.
A lot of people in restricted states are now turning to the under lever again for home defence as they have not got any regulations on them yet. I have heard that demand is very high for .357 and .44 so much so that Winchester are stepping up production. Shame it looks like Marlin might go to the wall though with Remmington going bust but nothing set in stone yet.
In some states every other car will have a revolver in the glove box, mostly due to the wildlife you might encounter at rest stops or if you break down.
People forget that its a dangerous country in the cities but in the sticks its just as bad but not humans!
The under lever is a classic American rifle and the vast, vast majority of people see no issue with under levers. Even those that oppose AR15s etc.
Thing is you get yourself on the wrong end of a 444 or 30-06 under lever and you will know about it. Can fire off 6-10 rounds of very, very high power ammunition in short order. They are still used to hunt deer at <200 yards today and will drop a big deer like a sack of you know what. But for some reason they don't see them as dangerous more of a part of their history. I always found that interesting and it really does go to show that looks and hype play a big part in this.
A lot of people in restricted states are now turning to the under lever again for home defence as they have not got any regulations on them yet. I have heard that demand is very high for .357 and .44 so much so that Winchester are stepping up production. Shame it looks like Marlin might go to the wall though with Remmington going bust but nothing set in stone yet.
JuniorD said:
I can’t really object to shotgun ownership, nor most hunting rifles, ie tools for particular jobs, (I even own some of these myself, I rarely use them and would give them up in a heartbeat if they were outlawed in the UK) but ownership of pistols and military style weapons is simply outrageous.
Out of interest what do you own, if section 1 what is your good reason?Ah not section 1 (England and Wales ) then as you are NI as you point out your laws are very different.
The interesting thing is you say no one needs an AR or Glock, and you are right. But then no one needs a car that can do more than 70mph or a watch that does nothing more than tell the time.. etc etc.. whilst we are at it lets ban dogs. They kill plenty of people each year. But I am sure people are saying but my dog is fine and likes people.
You may or may not be aware the there are proposed reforms for English and Welsh firearms laws currently on the table, just because of the possibility that they may one day be used in crime we should ban them even though the firearms that are suggested to be banned have never been used in crime. There has been no suggestion there is intelligence to back up the claims. To me that's wrong but it seems the country is now anti gun to the point where firearms owners don't get a say in the matter.
Going way OT now I guess.
The interesting thing is you say no one needs an AR or Glock, and you are right. But then no one needs a car that can do more than 70mph or a watch that does nothing more than tell the time.. etc etc.. whilst we are at it lets ban dogs. They kill plenty of people each year. But I am sure people are saying but my dog is fine and likes people.
You may or may not be aware the there are proposed reforms for English and Welsh firearms laws currently on the table, just because of the possibility that they may one day be used in crime we should ban them even though the firearms that are suggested to be banned have never been used in crime. There has been no suggestion there is intelligence to back up the claims. To me that's wrong but it seems the country is now anti gun to the point where firearms owners don't get a say in the matter.
Going way OT now I guess.
Actually its a good point.
Here an 18 year old cant own a semi automatic rifle in .223 but in the US he can, totally legal.
In Florida an 18 year old cant drive at 3am down the motorway with 3 of his mates in the back pissed off their heads.
I guess they would say our high death rate for young drivers is our own fault for not having proper laws in place!!
Here an 18 year old cant own a semi automatic rifle in .223 but in the US he can, totally legal.
In Florida an 18 year old cant drive at 3am down the motorway with 3 of his mates in the back pissed off their heads.
I guess they would say our high death rate for young drivers is our own fault for not having proper laws in place!!
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