Is the end nigh for the Euro? PIGS going bust? This Autumn?

[davepoth]

The steps Greece has to take now to avoid going bust include selling more or less everything it owns, including islands. And they still won't make enough back. If Greece still wants to own Greece at the end of this they need to default right now.

[Richie200]

^Steffan^ Sweden...Krona not Euro. Apart from that, well said;)

[The Black Flash]

V88Dicky said:

I hope the whole rotten edifice comes tumbling down on the fkers.

But that's me.

Love Europe, hate the EU/Euro

You are not alone.
It's just unfortunate that it's going to cost us all so much.

[Durruti]

Moodys puts Italy on downgrade review.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/moodys-puts-italy...

[munky]

Why do we need so many threads on the same topic? Also a little weird that the PIIGS has become PIGS.. Italy not being in a great state. It was Goldman Sachs that invented the acronym over a year and a half ago, not some bloke off the internet in February this year.

[smifffymoto]

3 french banks are into Greece for roughley 28 billion which they won't get back,a Belgian bank is in the process of restrcuturing as it knows its money is lost.In my view the whole system is at near breaking point and the days are numbered before the whole banking and monetry system comes to a spectacular finale.

[WhoseGeneration]

munky said:

Why do we need so many threads on the same topic? Also a little weird that the PIIGS has become PIGS.. Italy not being in a great state. It was Goldman Sachs that invented the acronym over a year and a half ago, not some bloke off the internet in February this year.

Surely no problem with several threads?, the Mods will, if they decide it's necessary, merge all into a general thread.
I did, above, mention the missing "I".
Let's face it, this stuff is of absolute importance to us all, whatever our specific individual interest, therefore slightly different slants from OPs are ok?

[Disgusted]

WhoseGeneration said:

munky said:

Why do we need so many threads on the same topic? Also a little weird that the PIIGS has become PIGS.. Italy not being in a great state. It was Goldman Sachs that invented the acronym over a year and a half ago, not some bloke off the internet in February this year.

Surely no problem with several threads?, the Mods will, if they decide it's necessary, merge all into a general thread.
I did, above, mention the missing "I".
Let's face it, this stuff is of absolute importance to us all, whatever our specific individual interest, therefore slightly different slants from OPs are ok?

The PIGS acronym has been around for a lot longer than that (I'd say at least 10 years). The "I" used to be Italy, not Ireland- it was also known as the Garlic Belt.

[dcb]

smifffymoto said:

In my view the whole system is at near breaking point and the days are numbered before the whole banking and monetry system comes to a spectacular finale.

Economics like this doesn't have spectacular finales.
Dull compromises are the order of the day.

Possible solution: North Euro and South Euro.

That way the Germans / Dutch / French / Austrians etc
get to keep their hard currency and the Southern Europeans
can have something a bit more flexible which can have
as a pragmatic long term target, union with the hard Northern
Euro.

Why the Germans decided the go the whole hog from
day 1 tells you a lot about how the Teutonic mind works.

Personally, I can't wait to book my next Greek holiday.

[WhoseGeneration]

dcb said:

Possible solution: North Euro and South Euro.

The sometimes suggested "two tier Euro"?
How does that work with one Central Bank?
With you though on the cheap holidays.

[TheStig44]

Im a bit of a simpleton and know next to fk all about Economics and finance so could someone answer a few qestions for me?

> If Greece default, surely that means that the various banks and organisations they owe money to are going to be pretty cheesed off. Surely they wont have any come back to their lost billions?

> What does all this mean for us and our pound sterling? Will we be better off if the Euro and the EU(SSR) were to fail?

> Just checked and apparently the USA is in some serious debt. My question is, who the blithering fk do they owe 14 and a half trillion dollars too?!? Who?!?

Thanks for your time in advance!

[ChairsWithHairs]

It's now at the stage where the only acceptable outcome for the Greek people is to leave the euro. Severe cuts and indebtedness to the EU won't be acceptable to them and in any case is not sustainable in any case. The next few months will be interesting.

[rs1952]

dcb said:

smifffymoto said:

In my view the whole system is at near breaking point and the days are numbered before the whole banking and monetry system comes to a spectacular finale.

Economics like this doesn't have spectacular finales. Dull compromises are the order of the day.

Possible solution: North Euro and South Euro.

That way the Germans / Dutch / French / Austrians etc get to keep their hard currency and the Southern Europeans can have something a bit more flexible which can have as a pragmatic long term target, union with the hard Northern Euro.

But this solution would seek to link "basket case" economies with "less than basket case" economies for political and monetary expediency, and I can't see it happening.

Are the Spanish and the Italians and the Irish going to acept that their economies are in as bad a state as that of Greece? Doubtful. And would the "hard Euro" countries be prepared to keep them on board? Also doubtful.

IMHO if there is any falling out of the Euro to be done, it will be done by individual countries adopting a different currency.

I think I've still got a few old peseta and lira and punt notes kicking about somewhere .....

[hidetheelephants]

TheStig44 said:

> Just checked and apparently the USA is in some serious debt. My question is, who the blithering fk do they owe 14 and a half trillion dollars too?!? Who?!?

The Chinese mostly, but also the middle east. Someone has to lend them the money so they can buy all the stuff the chinese keep making, and the chinese/arabs wouldn't be able to sleep if they stuffed all their bushells of cash under the mattress. Enlightened self-interest or a faustian pact that will destroy capitalism? You be the judge.

[WhoseGeneration]

hidetheelephants said:

Enlightened self-interest or a faustian pact that will destroy capitalism? You be the judge.

Except, it isn't Capitalism.

[hidetheelephants]

WhoseGeneration said:

hidetheelephants said:

Enlightened self-interest or a faustian pact that will destroy capitalism? You be the judge.

Except, it isn't Capitalism.

No-one said it had to make sense.

[Bing o]

Shouldn't it be USAPIIGSUK these days (pronounced 'you's a pig suck')?

[Mermaid]

Disgusted said:

The PIGS acronym has been around for a lot longer than that (I'd say at least 10 years). The "I" used to be Italy, not Ireland- it was also known as the Garlic Belt.

Out of flavour now

[elster]

Mermaid said:

Disgusted said:

The PIGS acronym has been around for a lot longer than that (I'd say at least 10 years). The "I" used to be Italy, not Ireland- it was also known as the Garlic Belt.

Out of flavour now

Seems the Italy is back now after being downgraded by Moody's

[Steffan]

elster said:

Mermaid said:

Disgusted said:

The PIGS acronym has been around for a lot longer than that (I'd say at least 10 years). The "I" used to be Italy, not Ireland- it was also known as the Garlic Belt.

Out of flavour now

Seems the Italy is back now after being downgraded by Moody's

I make no claim for the creation of the acronym as others have said it is years old. I just see this situation coming to real disaster point this year.

And you may well be right perhaps the PIIGS is a more accurate assessment.

However, on the subject of Italy I fear the UK and other economies are in much the same boat as Italy

Berlusconi has been as bad for Italy as the joint efforts of Blair and Brown have proved for the UK.

But whilst there are other weak economies in Europe within the Euro these four countries are clearly moredramatically weaker and utterly overspent than the rest of the EEC.

And we are not in the Euro so sterling hopefully (!!!) will sustain parity.