Grads more likely to become cleaners
Discussion
fido said:
Well according to another DT article with equally spurious hypotheses, it's because they were put off by a career in banking, what with the hazards of Repetitive Mobile Phone Injuries and getting paid too much ..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8712861/Ci...
"Dan Harrison, an 18 year-old who abandoned plans for a career in banking to become a civil engineer, said: "In banking you picture someone sitting there on a phone at a computer. With civil engineering, you're out in the field doing drawings."
Article said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8712861/Ci...
"Dan Harrison, an 18 year-old who abandoned plans for a career in banking to become a civil engineer, said: "In banking you picture someone sitting there on a phone at a computer. With civil engineering, you're out in the field doing drawings."
"I'll always have the option to go into banking later on – for pure monetary reasons – but for now it wouldn't be the best option because of the insecurity."
Sebo said:
fido said:
Well according to another DT article with equally spurious hypotheses, it's because they were put off by a career in banking, what with the hazards of Repetitive Mobile Phone Injuries and getting paid too much ..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8712861/Ci...
"Dan Harrison, an 18 year-old who abandoned plans for a career in banking to become a civil engineer, said: "In banking you picture someone sitting there on a phone at a computer. With civil engineering, you're out in the field doing drawings."
Article said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8712861/Ci...
"Dan Harrison, an 18 year-old who abandoned plans for a career in banking to become a civil engineer, said: "In banking you picture someone sitting there on a phone at a computer. With civil engineering, you're out in the field doing drawings."
"I'll always have the option to go into banking later on – for pure monetary reasons – but for now it wouldn't be the best option because of the insecurity."
3 years at uni with other people who want to stand in a field and draw a picture should be enough time to either decide whether he wants to sit in front of a computer and be paid f
k all and be called an engineer or whether he wants to sit in front a computer and earn a lot more and be called a banker.
They remember the help they got from nurses in their early days. (Rounds)rover 623gsi said:
I think you do need high skills to do those jobs really well - won't you don't necessarily need is a degree
then thats experienced or intelligent in the cases I've given above, not skilled. Skilled is a Mason or Carpenter where they spend their early part of their career learning how to do their job. Its not something you pick up as you go along.I would argue therefore that this article is using "skilled" in HR speak, to describe people who in the real world of the English language would have been called professionals or experienced.
Its sematics I know but I really do feel that the culture of inclusivenes has taken away some of the kudos for what were skills that no-one else could do and transferred it onto people who have been doing things for some time or new professions.
I don't think the last time I looked at the carving on a Cathdral and admired the skill it took did I also admire the skill of the guy who organised the Stone delivery.
powerstroke said:
very much aggree , like for instance a hospital if the cleaner dosent do his or her job right someone could die same with a surgeon but one has respect and the other is treated like what they are paid a pitance to clean up...
Did you get a degree in language mangling? It almost hurt to read that. said:
I very much agree. For instance in a hospital, if the cleaner does not do his or her job properly, someone could die as a result - same with a surgeon. Yet one has respect and the other is treated less favourably, presumably because they are paid a pittance.
Breathe.Edited by fido on Friday 26th August 16:38
Digga said:
And of course, part of the great shame of all this is that contemporary culture and society somehow (especailly in the UK) deem cleaners and other low-skilled jobs to be worthless. Embarrasingly so.
In the UK this also extends to worknig in bars, hotels and resauraunts. The fact that the long-term unemployed show little inclination for this work is as much a symptom of the arrogant and inconsiderate attitude of others.
Same as James Dyson said, 'Someone in the UK who moves pieces of paper around in a shirt and tie is viewed as some sort of god, but someone who works with highly technical moving parts is a grease monkey'.In the UK this also extends to worknig in bars, hotels and resauraunts. The fact that the long-term unemployed show little inclination for this work is as much a symptom of the arrogant and inconsiderate attitude of others.
DonkeyApple said:
The upside is that at 18 at least he seems to have some ambition and a bit of a plan. A massively flawed plan but a plan.
3 years at uni with other people who want to stand in a field and draw a picture should be enough time to either decide whether he wants to sit in front of a computer and be paid fk all and be called an engineer or whether he wants to sit in front a computer and earn a lot more and be called a banker.
Stand in a field and draw a picture? I'd give my right arm to stand in a field and draw a picture. If I'd gone into the finance sector like most of the people who did the course with me, I'd probably be retired or dead by now.3 years at uni with other people who want to stand in a field and draw a picture should be enough time to either decide whether he wants to sit in front of a computer and be paid f
k all and be called an engineer or whether he wants to sit in front a computer and earn a lot more and be called a banker.Still, at least I
t hole of a country running and don't have a fking clue how hard it can actually be and the fact we get less than some fkwit who massages numbers in a spreadsheet purely to make themselves richer turbobloke said:
Or Google the salaries that chairmen pay scientists.That man is an idiot, children choose their subjects, the system does not "produce humanities grads not scientists", it merely provides the classes that children pick. If children saw scientists as wealthy and successful you can bet they'd wise up fast and choose subjects accordingly.
What he really means is "Chairmen have a shortage of scientists at the salaries they offer but fail to understand this simple concept"
cymtriks said:
turbobloke said:
Or Google the salaries that chairmen pay scientists.That man is an idiot, children choose their subjects, the system does not "produce humanities grads not scientists", it merely provides the classes that children pick. If children saw scientists as wealthy and successful you can bet they'd wise up fast and choose subjects accordingly.
What he really means is "Chairmen have a shortage of scientists at the salaries they offer but fail to understand this simple concept"
cymtriks said:
turbobloke said:
Or Google the salaries that chairmen pay scientists.That man is an idiot, children choose their subjects, the system does not "produce humanities grads not scientists", it merely provides the classes that children pick. If children saw scientists as wealthy and successful you can bet they'd wise up fast and choose subjects accordingly.
What he really means is "Chairmen have a shortage of scientists at the salaries they offer but fail to understand this simple concept"
Pay for scientists and engineers...yes pay needs to go up to match other perceived high flying career salaries.
AdeTuono said:
powerstroke said:
very much agree , like for instance a hospital if the cleaner dosent do his or her job right someone could die, same with a surgeon but one has respect and the other is treated like what they are paid a pitance to clean up...
Did you get a degree in language mangling? It almost hurt to read that.
powerstroke said:
AdeTuono said:
powerstroke said:
very much agree , like for instance a hospital if the cleaner dosent do his or her job right someone could die, same with a surgeon but one has respect and the other is treated like what they are paid a pitance to clean up...
Did you get a degree in language mangling? It almost hurt to read that.AdeTuono said:
powerstroke said:
AdeTuono said:
powerstroke said:
very much agree , like for instance a hospital if the cleaner dosent do his or her job right someone could die, same with a surgeon but one has respect and the other is treated like what they are paid a pitance to clean up...
Did you get a degree in language mangling? It almost hurt to read that.
maybe your not a bore in real life
Speaking as an 18-year-old whose mates are all going to uni, but I've decided to push as far as I can without a degree first;
From what I'm seeing the problem is this. So many people are going to university that it doesn't mean st. There are some seriously thick people I know going to university, either studying a non-degree at a reasonable uni, or a reasonable degree at a st uni. Either way, in my group of 20-25 mates, only 4 or 5 of us aren't going to uni. If everybody is doing it, what is differentiating the people who are actually intelligent from those who are just going because it has been ingrained since the age of 11 that we MUST go to uni? Bit of a farce in many ways, we weren't offered any careers guidance that wasn't uni-focused. Everything was about going from GCSE to A Levels at the same school's sixth form and then progressing to university. This was all at a Dagenham comprehensive too, not even a 'decent' school. 
There is no focus on other ways of entering employment 
I left the sixth form to join a college, with the promise that the situation would be different. bks it was. All they care about is the statistic of how many people progress to do a degree. Seriously sad situation where people are going to uni because they are convinced that they cannot do well without a degree, and to a certain extent it is a self-fulfilling prophecy; so many people have them that it becomes the bare minimum standard required. I'm just hoping that my work ethic, experience, and qualifications earned on the job will pay in my favour but deep down I know that it will not be long before I hit a ceiling and need to do a degree myself.
Overall result seems to be that everybody, either actually intelligent or not, has the same piece of paper, applying for a relatively small pool of jobs.
From what I'm seeing the problem is this. So many people are going to university that it doesn't mean s
t. There are some seriously thick people I know going to university, either studying a non-degree at a reasonable uni, or a reasonable degree at a st uni. Either way, in my group of 20-25 mates, only 4 or 5 of us aren't going to uni. If everybody is doing it, what is differentiating the people who are actually intelligent from those who are just going because it has been ingrained since the age of 11 that we MUST go to uni? Bit of a farce in many ways, we weren't offered any careers guidance that wasn't uni-focused. Everything was about going from GCSE to A Levels at the same school's sixth form and then progressing to university. This was all at a Dagenham comprehensive too, not even a 'decent' school. There is no focus on other ways of entering employment I left the sixth form to join a college, with the promise that the situation would be different. bks it was. All they care about is the statistic of how many people progress to do a degree. Seriously sad situation where people are going to uni because they are convinced that they cannot do well without a degree, and to a certain extent it is a self-fulfilling prophecy; so many people have them that it becomes the bare minimum standard required. I'm just hoping that my work ethic, experience, and qualifications earned on the job will pay in my favour but deep down I know that it will not be long before I hit a ceiling and need to do a degree myself. Overall result seems to be that everybody, either actually intelligent or not, has the same piece of paper, applying for a relatively small pool of jobs.
I don't really see what has changed in the last 30 years since I was at Uni.
The number of jobs available for bright graduates with useful degrees from good unis is probably same or better than 30 years ago - and the number of those students as a % of the population is still pretty similar (<5%?).
get a good degree from a good school in a good subject and u will get a good job. ( eg medicine law engineering or maths from Oxbridge, london or other top schools )
study the history of basket weaving at Luton Poly ( sorry...... University of Bedfordshire) and u won't .
The number of jobs available for bright graduates with useful degrees from good unis is probably same or better than 30 years ago - and the number of those students as a % of the population is still pretty similar (<5%?).
get a good degree from a good school in a good subject and u will get a good job. ( eg medicine law engineering or maths from Oxbridge, london or other top schools )
study the history of basket weaving at Luton Poly ( sorry...... University of Bedfordshire) and u won't .
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