Poor cut off from water
Discussion
Fittster said:
chris watton said:
Fittster said:
chris watton said:
Fittster said:
A thread about poor people suffering on PH?
Good luck with that one.
Good luck with that one.
But the climate change threads (political) relate to the poorest being shafted the most - and they're some of the most popular threads!
Not everyone on PH are super rich tories.......
tabix this morning 
Wonder how many of these "poor" people bought house/cars/big TV's/Holidays all on the never never in the good times?
Personal responsibility is not just for people well off.
AJS- said:
Why do people have a "right" to fresh water being pumped into their houses anyway? Dig a well, get a bucket or whatever.
Generally in agreement. But, do you realize that the formation of our water companies included the forced sealing of private families' wells? You cannot just dig a well now.grumbledoak said:
Generally in agreement. But, do you realize that the formation of our water companies included the forced sealing of private families' wells? You cannot just dig a well now.
I didn't realise that actually, but know of a fair few houses with their own private water supply. I also know that if I didn't have any water I'd figure out how to get some before I called the BBC about it.
AJS- said:
Why do people have a "right" to fresh water being pumped into their houses anyway? Dig a well, get a bucket or whatever. Sooner or later if it doesn't get paid for it won't be there, right or not.
It's not an individual right, but it's a massive benefit for all of society not to have large areas that are breeding grounds for disease. Would you trust some families to sort out their own sewerage and sanitation if it wasn't available centrally at a decent price? $150 per month is a bit pricey when minimum wage in Alabama is $7.25/hour.KrazyIvan said:
Wow some one had a double helping of ttabix this morning
Wonder how many of these "poor" people bought house/cars/big TV's/Holidays all on the never never in the good times?
Personal responsibility is not just for people well off.
I very much doubt the average person on the planet (a 28-year-old, right-handed, Han Chinese man, with a cellphone, and no bank account) has a house/cars/big TV's/Holidays on credit. tabix this morning Wonder how many of these "poor" people bought house/cars/big TV's/Holidays all on the never never in the good times?
Personal responsibility is not just for people well off.
grantone said:
It's not an individual right, but it's a massive benefit for all of society not to have large areas that are breeding grounds for disease. Would you trust some families to sort out their own sewerage and sanitation if it wasn't available centrally at a decent price? $150 per month is a bit pricey when minimum wage in Alabama is $7.25/hour.
I trust them to die off if they don't. If it really were in my interests to water them, why must it be done through the tax system?
Water is a really basic example, but the more you help people to have the benefits of economic progress without actually progressing themselves, the more extreme these problems become, and the more you clean up after people's mistakes, the more catastrophic mistakes they will make. And more often.
What's the bet these corrupt officials who drove the town to bankruptcy in the first place were elected on the back of wild promises of great expenditure with lower taxation, and free pot noodles and cider (or the Alabamian equivalent) for all.
AJS- said:
Why do people have a "right" to fresh water being pumped into their houses anyway? Dig a well, get a bucket or whatever. Sooner or later if it doesn't get paid for it won't be there, right or not.
Why do you live where you do? Why not Eritrea, Somalia or DR Congo? Do you not see the value and benefits that reliable sanitation brings? Do you have an ailment or are you likely to ever require life saving surgery or treatment? Shall we deny you the 'right' to that, allowing you the option of carrying out surgery on your own organs, tough luck if you're not capable, you die? anonymous said:
[redacted]
Actually I choose to live in Thailand for a number of reasons, but neither sanitation or "free" healthcare play much of a part. It has drains that work mostly, and indoor plumbing but there's some pretty foul stuff around too, and you don't drink the tap water. Government healthcare is very cheap, tough not free, and is often more likely to lead to an amputation than groundbreaking surgery to save you.
I don't have any real objection to helping people on an ad hoc basis, say by digging a well for an old guy who can't dig it himself, or paying for surgery for someone who genuinely had some rotten luck at a bad time. However this culture of everyone at all times having rights to all of the benefits of the modern world, while continually failing to live up to the most basic requirements of it is just stupid.
And if you think the problem with those countries you mentioned is a lack of left wing people proclaiming everyone's rights to health, wealth and happiness then you need to have a look at their history.
Tycho said:
Totally agree. These things are a basic human right IMO. I would be fully behind making them public non-profit making organisations if you could guarantee they would work efficiently.
Not for profit would be nice please! But I meant if they have to be run by a commercial company to be viable then at least a system should be in place for the state to keep the services running if the company cannot continue its operations. Rather like bank bailout, assuming sanitation is as important to a nation as the financial sector?Yes before anyone says it I know this case is from the U.S.
AndrewW-G said:
Chaps,
Does the article not go into the details of how the local government run service, cocked up the renovation of the drains and therefore put the cost of water, out of the reach of the poorer members of their society, or have I missed something?
#Does the article not go into the details of how the local government run service, cocked up the renovation of the drains and therefore put the cost of water, out of the reach of the poorer members of their society, or have I missed something?
"New county commissioners, struggling to service the debt they inherited from their crooked predecessors, took the decision to file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy last month.
But the county's bondholders, who stand to lose about $4.5m a month in repayments if the bankruptcy is allowed to proceed, are contesting it in court.
A Birmingham bankruptcy judge, Thomas B Bennett, has yet to make a final ruling."
So while this is being sorted out in court, the bond holders or the people without access to mains water and sewage?
AndrewW-G said:
Chaps,
Does the article not go into the details of how the local government run service cocked up the renovation of the drains and therefore put the cost of water out of the reach of the poorer members of their society, or have I missed something?
Not so much cocking up the civil works as investing in bonds to pay the bill? What and indeed The fDoes the article not go into the details of how the local government run service cocked up the renovation of the drains and therefore put the cost of water out of the reach of the poorer members of their society, or have I missed something?
k? I like the cut of their new county manager's jib; BBC article said:
Mr Petelos recalls attending a presentation by a Wall Street bank about the same kind of bonds that would later prove to be the downfall of Jefferson County.
He says: "I turned to my finance director and said, 'did you understand that?' He said, 'no I didn't'. So I said, 'we had better not buy it then'."
Perhaps if Jefferson County's previous commissioners had made the same decision, some of their poorest residents would not be facing daily life without basic sanitation and running water.
He says: "I turned to my finance director and said, 'did you understand that?' He said, 'no I didn't'. So I said, 'we had better not buy it then'."
Perhaps if Jefferson County's previous commissioners had made the same decision, some of their poorest residents would not be facing daily life without basic sanitation and running water.
AJS- said:
What about the cigarette trees, and the lemonade springs?
This stuff has to come from somewhere.
You do realise that 'not for profit' does not mean 'free to all'! This stuff has to come from somewhere.
I'm not advocating any such thing as 'no cost' provision. I am aware that there is a debate as to whether public operations can offer as good a service as private profiteers and there are examples that damn both ways of thinking. I am also aware that our utility companies would have us believe they are making such small margins that their profits have very little impact on our bills.
AJS- said:
And if you think the problem with those countries you mentioned is a lack of left wing people proclaiming everyone's rights to health, wealth and happiness then you need to have a look at their history.
Nope nothing of the kind. It's something that surpasses political categorisation, not left, not right, it's called giving a st, some nations' governments do, some don't! Don't get so hung up on politics, it'S irrelevant in this case. hidetheelephants said:
Not so much cocking up the civil works as investing in bonds to pay the bill? What and indeed The fk? I like the cut of their new county manager's jib;
The Republican comment in the article got me interested, so I checked, and yes, Jefferson Country was the one bit of Alabama that voted democrat. And apparently, then only one reporting this problem.k? I like the cut of their new county manager's jib; BBC article said:
When he was Republican mayor of Birmingham's neighbouring city of Hoover, Mr Petelos recalls attending a presentation by a Wall Street bank about the same kind of bonds that would later prove to be the downfall of Jefferson County.
He says: "I turned to my finance director and said, 'did you understand that?' He said, 'no I didn't'. So I said, 'we had better not buy it then'."
Perhaps if Jefferson County's previous commissioners had made the same decision, some of their poorest residents would not be facing daily life without basic sanitation and running water.
He says: "I turned to my finance director and said, 'did you understand that?' He said, 'no I didn't'. So I said, 'we had better not buy it then'."
Perhaps if Jefferson County's previous commissioners had made the same decision, some of their poorest residents would not be facing daily life without basic sanitation and running water.
Wiki said:
Although Alabama as a whole voted for John McCain by double digits, Barack Obama carried Jefferson County with 166,121 votes (52%) John McCain received 149,921 votes (47%).
BBC article said:
And there is widespread anger in Jefferson County that swingeing sewerage rate hikes could have been avoided but for the greed, corruption and incompetence of local politicians, government officials and Wall Street financiers....
Six of Jefferson County's former commissioners have been found guilty of corruption for accepting the bribes, along with 15 other officials....
To add further to Jefferson County's woes, it faces a budget shortfall next year of $40m after a local tax was declared illegal....
What is it with democrats and money? They always seem to just piss it up the wall (obviously necessarilly, here) or line their pockets.Six of Jefferson County's former commissioners have been found guilty of corruption for accepting the bribes, along with 15 other officials....
To add further to Jefferson County's woes, it faces a budget shortfall next year of $40m after a local tax was declared illegal....
BBC article said:
"Somebody from Washington DC needs to come down here and take these sewer bills to where they are affordable for the people in these districts. Injustice - that's all this is. They need to come down here and fix it."
Then demand someone else fix it. Kudos to the people using porta-pottys, though; at least they are trying to work around the problem.The incongruity of this made me laugh:
Wiki said:
In 2007 Jefferson County had the highest rate of syphilis cases per 100,000 in the US, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
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