The Deficit Myth! Cameron When are you Going to Apologise?
Discussion
Digga
I definitely agree that the banks played a huge part in creating the culture of easy borrowing, and I'd also note that some businesses did extremely well out of it. I know less about the way they've handled it, but it doesn't surprise me that it was badly.
I do think we'll still have SMEs in 10 years time though, and they will be less credit dependent, which on balance is a good thing.
I definitely agree that the banks played a huge part in creating the culture of easy borrowing, and I'd also note that some businesses did extremely well out of it. I know less about the way they've handled it, but it doesn't surprise me that it was badly.
I do think we'll still have SMEs in 10 years time though, and they will be less credit dependent, which on balance is a good thing.
So what he is saying is that everything is actually OK and that there is no need for austerity or any change, we are all doing well, or at least a lot better than we are led to believe.
That's OK then.
Why do people listen to f
kwits like this who make no valid contribution to anything at all?
That's OK then.
Why do people listen to f
kwits like this who make no valid contribution to anything at all?Caulkhead said:
Some other guff by this alleged economist, though googling his names comes up pretty empty:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/georg...
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/david...
He is a berk isn't he! http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/georg...
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/david...
The fact he mentions that he is a Conservative supporter every time just before he starts his half baked economic analysis is as clear a sign as you need that he is a Labour plant. It would help if he understood the things he is writing about. Economist? Nah, Wannabee opinion columnist (with a poor writing style) more like!
Johnnytheboy said:
crazy about cars said:
Sometimes the lesson had to be learnt the hard way. The cuts are hard but people are starting to learn and adapt a more lean business strategy.
No, what they'll do is wait until the Tories have sorted the economy out, see the signs of growth and decide they want the government to give them nice things, then vote Labour back in. Labour will screw the economy, get voted out, the Tories will come in and make hugely unpopular decisions in order to sort the ecoonomy out...<repeats>
crankedup said:
Johnnytheboy said:
crazy about cars said:
Sometimes the lesson had to be learnt the hard way. The cuts are hard but people are starting to learn and adapt a more lean business strategy.
No, what they'll do is wait until the Tories have sorted the economy out, see the signs of growth and decide they want the government to give them nice things, then vote Labour back in. Labour will screw the economy, get voted out, the Tories will come in and make hugely unpopular decisions in order to sort the ecoonomy out...<repeats>
crankedup said:
Historically accurate maybe, not so sure the Tories will have any credibility following this Parliament, sorting out a Christmas party, never mind the economy, would seem beyond them. Why is the Chancellor still around, to say he is hopeless is generous.
today must be awful for you Cranky old chum. 1% growth eh?crankedup said:
Johnnytheboy said:
crazy about cars said:
Sometimes the lesson had to be learnt the hard way. The cuts are hard but people are starting to learn and adapt a more lean business strategy.
No, what they'll do is wait until the Tories have sorted the economy out, see the signs of growth and decide they want the government to give them nice things, then vote Labour back in. Labour will screw the economy, get voted out, the Tories will come in and make hugely unpopular decisions in order to sort the ecoonomy out...<repeats>
Though a cynic might wonder if the lib dems are privately agreeing to new policy decisions then complaining publicly when they are announced.
Anyway, good news about the growth figures.
crankedup said:
Johnnytheboy said:
crazy about cars said:
Sometimes the lesson had to be learnt the hard way. The cuts are hard but people are starting to learn and adapt a more lean business strategy.
No, what they'll do is wait until the Tories have sorted the economy out, see the signs of growth and decide they want the government to give them nice things, then vote Labour back in. Labour will screw the economy, get voted out, the Tories will come in and make hugely unpopular decisions in order to sort the ecoonomy out...<repeats>
Im not entirely sure what you think the plan was, but whatever you think it was is different to everybody else and dont forget Im the one who has history of being thrown out of meetings for calling the Boy George incompetent.
andymadmak said:
crankedup said:
Historically accurate maybe, not so sure the Tories will have any credibility following this Parliament, sorting out a Christmas party, never mind the economy, would seem beyond them. Why is the Chancellor still around, to say he is hopeless is generous.
today must be awful for you Cranky old chum. 1% growth eh?
it comes as a shot in the head rather than arm. Add to that the belated admission on growth numbers will at best be zig-zag for 'some time'. Can't see any reasons to be cheerful yet. Gloomster or realist, your choice, at the moment for me its both.
Still some progress is better than none of course, lets see where we are this time next year.
DJRC said:
crankedup said:
Johnnytheboy said:
crazy about cars said:
Sometimes the lesson had to be learnt the hard way. The cuts are hard but people are starting to learn and adapt a more lean business strategy.
No, what they'll do is wait until the Tories have sorted the economy out, see the signs of growth and decide they want the government to give them nice things, then vote Labour back in. Labour will screw the economy, get voted out, the Tories will come in and make hugely unpopular decisions in order to sort the ecoonomy out...<repeats>
Im not entirely sure what you think the plan was, but whatever you think it was is different to everybody else and dont forget Im the one who has history of being thrown out of meetings for calling the Boy George incompetent.
:Now we are moving into plan A+ continue with cuts but start to consider promoting growth through infrastructure improvements and new builds, improve start-up on social housing builds, increase grant aid to fledgling companies blah blah blah.
ps: it has not gone as everybody said it would, if that were the case we would be enjoying growth of 4.5% now.
DJRC said:
? But its gone exactly how everyone said it would do. Actually if we just shut by 1% then its better, as 2012 was planned to be the worst year.
Im not entirely sure what you think the plan was, but whatever you think it was is different to everybody else and dont forget Im the one who has history of being thrown out of meetings for calling the Boy George incompetent.
GDP is a poor marker when the debt continues to grow. It's like being triumphant because I managed to buy a new car this year, only my credit card balance has risen significantly.Im not entirely sure what you think the plan was, but whatever you think it was is different to everybody else and dont forget Im the one who has history of being thrown out of meetings for calling the Boy George incompetent.
ralphrj said:
crankedup said:
Indeedy, when the trumpeted 4.5% growth was forecast back in 2010 it comes as a shot in the head rather than arm.
Who forecast 4.5%? it comes as a shot in the head rather than arm.andymadmak said:
ralphrj said:
crankedup said:
Indeedy, when the trumpeted 4.5% growth was forecast back in 2010 it comes as a shot in the head rather than arm.
Who forecast 4.5%? it comes as a shot in the head rather than arm.I suppose it would be pointless to say that the 4.5% was not Osborne's figure plucked out of thin air like the ones Brown and Darling used but an independent one given to him by the OBR which was based on a consensus of forecasts (none of whom thought the Eurozone was going to implode so spectacularly).
crankedup said:
I shall remind you of the original plan - cut public expenditure via welfare, public services. Those jobs lost in the Public sector would be mopped up by the private sector. Increase taxation, except to the those earning one million pounds where we will cut their tax. Increase the tax on a pasty:
Now we are moving into plan A+ continue with cuts but start to consider promoting growth through infrastructure improvements and new builds, improve start-up on social housing builds, increase grant aid to fledgling companies blah blah blah.
ps: it has not gone as everybody said it would, if that were the case we would be enjoying growth of 4.5% now.
Or....:Now we are moving into plan A+ continue with cuts but start to consider promoting growth through infrastructure improvements and new builds, improve start-up on social housing builds, increase grant aid to fledgling companies blah blah blah.
ps: it has not gone as everybody said it would, if that were the case we would be enjoying growth of 4.5% now.
Cut public expenditure via welfare and public services ..... Sadly most of the meaningfull cuts blocked by the Lib Dems, but nevertheless 750,000 new private sector jobs created. Falling unemployment.
Increase taxation, except to the those earning one million pounds where we will cut their tax...... But the poorest will be lifted out of tax completely and the silly envy tax at the top end, which would have raised bugger all and may even have led to a reduction in tax revenues from the wealthiest has been deleted before it was ever implemented.
Increase the tax on a pasty..... A sensible move that allows the small takeaway shop owner to compete with the bully boys like Greggs on the highstreet... sadly dropped.
Now we are moving into plan A+ continue with cuts but start to consider promoting growth through infrastructure improvements and new builds, improve start-up on social housing builds, increase grant aid to fledgling companies............. and all managed without having to substantially increase Government borrowing and the inevitable undermining of UK credit ratings/interest rates that would surely have followed a borrow/spend fest, in stark contrast to how New Labour would have gone about it..
it has not gone as everybody said it would, if that were the case we would be enjoying growth of 4.5% now..............Except nobody ever claimed this. You need to go and read your New Labour briefing pack more closely Cranky, otherwise there's a chance you might make yourself look like a bit of a t
t Guam said:
Absolutely Bang on Digga,, I know many businesses, including ours, that underwent exactly that. Fortunately we had reserves to cope with the contraction when it hit <at the same time as the biggest fall off in automotive history just to rub salt in>. Still we had planned for this kind of eventuality.
We were lucky compared to many imho.
Another one in agreement. 50 years of loyalty didn't help either. We were lucky compared to many imho.
Still not much better now!
_Batty_ said:
Guam said:
Absolutely Bang on Digga,, I know many businesses, including ours, that underwent exactly that. Fortunately we had reserves to cope with the contraction when it hit <at the same time as the biggest fall off in automotive history just to rub salt in>. Still we had planned for this kind of eventuality.
We were lucky compared to many imho.
Another one in agreement. 50 years of loyalty didn't help either. We were lucky compared to many imho.
Still not much better now!
The business world is rife with tales about not trusting banks - we all knew the risks of repayable-on-demand finance - the founder of Kwik Save having the best story (see precis below) BUT the big banks had our economy by the nuts and knew it in q1 2009 and IMHo behaved appallingly. They will never be trusted again - this, as much as the availability of credit is now an issue.
Kwik Save story said:
Set up first store in NW with help from an overdraf. Got store running well and wanted to expand, with help from overdraft exension.
Additional borrowing was beyond branch manager's remit so he and Mr Kwick Save visited regional manager who asked "might your new store put corners shops out of business?" Er yes, perhaps. "And might some of those corner shops be our existing customers?" Er possibly, yes.
Decision came back a few days later - overdraft extension declined and extan limit to be repaid immediately.
Mr Kwik Save never used the banks again.
Additional borrowing was beyond branch manager's remit so he and Mr Kwick Save visited regional manager who asked "might your new store put corners shops out of business?" Er yes, perhaps. "And might some of those corner shops be our existing customers?" Er possibly, yes.
Decision came back a few days later - overdraft extension declined and extan limit to be repaid immediately.
Mr Kwik Save never used the banks again.
crankedup said:
DJRC said:
crankedup said:
Johnnytheboy said:
crazy about cars said:
Sometimes the lesson had to be learnt the hard way. The cuts are hard but people are starting to learn and adapt a more lean business strategy.
No, what they'll do is wait until the Tories have sorted the economy out, see the signs of growth and decide they want the government to give them nice things, then vote Labour back in. Labour will screw the economy, get voted out, the Tories will come in and make hugely unpopular decisions in order to sort the ecoonomy out...<repeats>
Im not entirely sure what you think the plan was, but whatever you think it was is different to everybody else and dont forget Im the one who has history of being thrown out of meetings for calling the Boy George incompetent.
:Now we are moving into plan A+ continue with cuts but start to consider promoting growth through infrastructure improvements and new builds, improve start-up on social housing builds, increase grant aid to fledgling companies blah blah blah.
ps: it has not gone as everybody said it would, if that were the case we would be enjoying growth of 4.5% now.
I freely admit I dont understand the rest of your post, but one presumes that just me being thick.
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