Microsoft Fined £484M
Discussion
Regiment said:
I presume Microsoft have the big market share, especially amongst businesses, that the EU pick on them.
Actually march 2013 browser stats show IE (all versions combined) at 29.82%, below 30% of the market for the first time, and below Google Chrome at 37.11%. Firefox has 21.34%. http://www.sitepoint.com/browser-trends-march-2013...IE6 was an abomination, but there was always an alternative and so long as MS didn't keep up, ie was always going to lose in the end.
I haven't used ie for many years, but i still dont agree with the EU using them as a cash-cow.
dudleybloke said:
does ANYONE still use ie?
Very few I think, which makes me believe that the financial advantage of someone using IE, which is free anyway, hasn't been taken into account given the magnitude of the fine.It appears that most install Windows and then get their browser of choice using IE. It would be a pain if there was no browser included.
Edit: Sonic's figures are better.
MX7 said:
dudleybloke said:
does ANYONE still use ie?
Very few I think, which makes me believe that the financial advantage of someone using IE, which is free anyway, hasn't been taken into account given the magnitude of the fine.
MX7 said:
It appears that most install Windows and then get their browser of choice using IE. It would be a pain if there was no browser included.
It's been a long time since I've installed Windows and I haven't installed any recent one, but I thought I'd heard the solution they came up with was a screen where you choose a browser to install and it gave you a choice of, say, three browsers in a random order. Choose one and it downloads it for you.0000 said:
It's been a long time since I've installed Windows and I haven't installed any recent one, but I thought I'd heard the solution they came up with was a screen where you choose a browser to install and it gave you a choice of, say, three browsers in a random order. Choose one and it downloads it for you.
That's what this is all about!BBC Article said:
It introduced a Browser Choice Screen pop-up in March 2010 as part of a settlement following an earlier EU competition investigation.
But the US company dropped the feature in a Windows 7 update in February 2011.
Microsoft said the omission had been the result of a "technical error".
Even when it did that I'd just skip it, and then do it manually.But the US company dropped the feature in a Windows 7 update in February 2011.
Microsoft said the omission had been the result of a "technical error".
0000 said:
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Do Apple bundle their browser with MAC OS?
Yes.But they aren't using an operating system monopoly to influence the browser market.
If Opera was so good back in 2007 why is that no-one uses it?
Apple on the other hand seem to get away with far worse behaviour, didn't Steve Jobs state that he wanted to destroy Android?
Carfolio said:
MX7 said:
I would ask you to expand on this, but I feel that it would just be a waste of everyone's time.
I agree it would waste everyone's time, as if you can't see the problem with that viewpoint no amount of explaining can possibly help you.jesusbuiltmycar said:
As far as browsers are concerned IE is way behind Chrome and Firefox (which is a turd IMHO) browser-stats.
It is now, it wasn't in 2007 and that's kind of beside the point. It was the OS market share being abused not the browser market share.jesusbuiltmycar said:
If Opera was so good back in 2007 why is that no-one uses it?
I guess they'd contend more people would have used it if IE wasn't peddled on an OS that virtually everyone used.jesusbuiltmycar said:
Apple on the other hand seem to get away with far worse behaviour, didn't Steve Jobs state that he wanted to destroy Android?
IDK. But the point AIUI isn't the behaviour, or the intention within one market. It's the abuse of monopoly in one market to influence another.MX7 said:
0000 said:
It's been a long time since I've installed Windows and I haven't installed any recent one, but I thought I'd heard the solution they came up with was a screen where you choose a browser to install and it gave you a choice of, say, three browsers in a random order. Choose one and it downloads it for you.
That's what this is all about!BBC Article said:
It introduced a Browser Choice Screen pop-up in March 2010 as part of a settlement following an earlier EU competition investigation.
But the US company dropped the feature in a Windows 7 update in February 2011.
Microsoft said the omission had been the result of a "technical error".
Even when it did that I'd just skip it, and then do it manually.But the US company dropped the feature in a Windows 7 update in February 2011.
Microsoft said the omission had been the result of a "technical error".
0000 said:
Ah. So that's why this is still going on. They really haven't got a leg to stand on then.
But what differentiates the browser from anything else? Do you want to be offered a myriad of paint programs, calculators, media players, PDF readers, compression utilities, etc. every time you install windows? I think it'd be a nightmare. I can't think of any other product that has been forced to comply to the same standards as MS has.
0000 said:
MX7 said:
0000 said:
It's been a long time since I've installed Windows and I haven't installed any recent one, but I thought I'd heard the solution they came up with was a screen where you choose a browser to install and it gave you a choice of, say, three browsers in a random order. Choose one and it downloads it for you.
That's what this is all about!BBC Article said:
It introduced a Browser Choice Screen pop-up in March 2010 as part of a settlement following an earlier EU competition investigation.
But the US company dropped the feature in a Windows 7 update in February 2011.
Microsoft said the omission had been the result of a "technical error".
Even when it did that I'd just skip it, and then do it manually.But the US company dropped the feature in a Windows 7 update in February 2011.
Microsoft said the omission had been the result of a "technical error".
0000 said:
jesusbuiltmycar said:
As far as browsers are concerned IE is way behind Chrome and Firefox (which is a turd IMHO) browser-stats.
It is now, it wasn't in 2007 and that's kind of beside the point. It was the OS market share being abused not the browser market share.
It's exactly the situation the browser choice idea was intended to result in.Not saying how effective it was, just that in principle it was to increase usage of other browers. Now more browsers are used.
I used Netscape. Whilst I was told it was considerably better than IE, I used it because it suited the way I used the internet. Everyone used Netscape in those days. When people referred to their browser they said Netscape despite this being the name of the company and not the browser itself (which I've forgotten.)
For those who don't know, MS then opted to dominate the market, I think that's the phrase, and eventually all but killed Netscape, the intention, admitted by MS, was to charge for IE. An executive of MS admitted that their intent was to starve Netscape. It was eventually used by AOL (I think - possibly wrong there). If a European IT company had done the same then they would have been hit with class action after class action and would have gone under. As it was American . . .
I'm by no means anti-American, although I have contempt for their legal system.
As it was, once MS had destroyed Netscape by giving IE away free, the development of browsers all but ended. Instead of significant upgrades two or three times a year, we ended up with holes being plugged every two or three years. IE stayed more or less the same now that there was no competition. There were other browsers but they were slow to develop.
Once other browsers became available, such at Firefox, things began to move again. Now I have three browsers that I use regularly, all slightly different, all having something in their favour. I still have IE on my computer but I can't remember the last time I used it other than to check how a website appears on it.
The fact that we have a choice of browser, that they are developing almost quarterly and that they are faster, smoother and app rich, is down to the pressure brought by the EU to an extent. They only reverted to courts when trying to influence the American government failed.
For a company like MS a fine of this magnitude is not going to stop them pulling the dirty tricks again. They want the protection of the copyright laws to be enforced by Europe, which they do, so they must conform to the laws regarding how businesses should behave.
It is farcical to suggest that the EU are milking MS. If they tried it the American government would make their feelings known.
For those who don't know, MS then opted to dominate the market, I think that's the phrase, and eventually all but killed Netscape, the intention, admitted by MS, was to charge for IE. An executive of MS admitted that their intent was to starve Netscape. It was eventually used by AOL (I think - possibly wrong there). If a European IT company had done the same then they would have been hit with class action after class action and would have gone under. As it was American . . .
I'm by no means anti-American, although I have contempt for their legal system.
As it was, once MS had destroyed Netscape by giving IE away free, the development of browsers all but ended. Instead of significant upgrades two or three times a year, we ended up with holes being plugged every two or three years. IE stayed more or less the same now that there was no competition. There were other browsers but they were slow to develop.
Once other browsers became available, such at Firefox, things began to move again. Now I have three browsers that I use regularly, all slightly different, all having something in their favour. I still have IE on my computer but I can't remember the last time I used it other than to check how a website appears on it.
The fact that we have a choice of browser, that they are developing almost quarterly and that they are faster, smoother and app rich, is down to the pressure brought by the EU to an extent. They only reverted to courts when trying to influence the American government failed.
For a company like MS a fine of this magnitude is not going to stop them pulling the dirty tricks again. They want the protection of the copyright laws to be enforced by Europe, which they do, so they must conform to the laws regarding how businesses should behave.
It is farcical to suggest that the EU are milking MS. If they tried it the American government would make their feelings known.
The "browser wars" weren't won by Microsoft; Netscape threw away their position with a succession of s
te products and for years there wasn't any real competition outside the wet dreams of geeks deluding themselves that they were "sticking it to the Man". Today, with Chrome the market leader, these geeks can finally get their desired "non-conformity" from a different multi-billion dollar corporation.
This was a greedy shakedown by politicians and nothing more.
te products and for years there wasn't any real competition outside the wet dreams of geeks deluding themselves that they were "sticking it to the Man". Today, with Chrome the market leader, these geeks can finally get their desired "non-conformity" from a different multi-billion dollar corporation.This was a greedy shakedown by politicians and nothing more.
I think it's a case of by the time the legislators have realised and caught up the market has moved.
But the idea that the average user would fire up IE for the first time and go download their favourite browser is silly. My parents wouldn't know what a browser was, that there were other options out or why they would want to change.
From the reviews I've seen IE has now caught up with the pack. I still use Chrome though - fab browser!
But the idea that the average user would fire up IE for the first time and go download their favourite browser is silly. My parents wouldn't know what a browser was, that there were other options out or why they would want to change.
From the reviews I've seen IE has now caught up with the pack. I still use Chrome though - fab browser!
MX7 said:
Isn't Netscape now Mozilla?
I was under the impression it went open source. But that said, it was a long time ago. I thought a number of modern browsers was based on Netscape Communicator (I looked it up). I think there can be little doubt that the competition between the browser designers ensured that, for a while at least, their development increased the attraction of the net. The wonder is, of course, that if there had been other OS, what would we have now. For sure, there would be little argument over whether Apple was better because it would not be.
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