Millibrain as PM. The end of the UK?

[kiethton]

McWigglebum4th said:

I suppose the problem is what do you define as far worse?

I imagine for the city boys it might be something like not being able to afford the 21"inch wheel package on their latest s-line

Hmmmm before you start slating the city....again....you may want to read this

http://www.cityam.com/article/london-rules

[marcosgt]

jdw1234 said:

Why would anyone who isn't reliant on the state want to vote Labour?

Why would anyone with such a limited understanding of politics post in the News, Politics & Economics thread?

Life's full of mysteries... (here we go... - )

Your question is a bit like asking "Why would anyone who likes football support anyone but Man Utd?".

simoid said:

Elroy Blue said:

It's reached a point where it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. Non of them have the interests if the British population at heart. They're serve themselves and nobody else.

Why not go back to bed and get out of the sane side?

True, must be loads of room there if you really believe any politicians really give a st about anyone but themselves...

M.

Edited by marcosgt on Thursday 14th March 09:38

[SMGB]

If Balls gets back in no. 11 it could be just what UK Plc needs, 6 months of spending like a drunken sailor followed by being bailed out by the IMF. The Cameron "cuts" would be put in perspective then
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhal...
For the younger contributors. Since J M Keynes theories plus the spending on WW II hardware rescued capitalism in 1939 state spending has been seen as an economic anti gravity machine and combined get out of jail free card by voters and pols. JMK only saw it as a counter cyclical tool where it still has a place, the belief that all the Govmint needs to do is push a few buttons and if this lot arent clever enough vote in another lot who say they know which ones to push in what order and all will be solved seems part of folk culture now. The UK may be gone beyond the point at which democracy works now though.

Edited by SMGB on Thursday 14th March 10:06

[McWigglebum4th]

kiethton said:

McWigglebum4th said:

I suppose the problem is what do you define as far worse?

I imagine for the city boys it might be something like not being able to afford the 21"inch wheel package on their latest s-line

Hmmmm before you start slating the city....again....you may want to read this

http://www.cityam.com/article/london-rules

The point still stands

To some people the end of the world is not being able to get the latest Audi S-line as a company to park on the driveway of there comfortable 4 bedroom house to others the end of the world is ending up in a cardboard box sleeping in an archway.

Seeing that when the stock market crashes we have multi millionaries leaping to their death with a 10 grand watch on their wrist I feel my point is more then valid

[maxrider1]

'than'

[Elroy Blue]

[redacted]

[kiethton]

McWigglebum4th said:

kiethton said:

McWigglebum4th said:

I suppose the problem is what do you define as far worse?

I imagine for the city boys it might be something like not being able to afford the 21"inch wheel package on their latest s-line

Hmmmm before you start slating the city....again....you may want to read this

http://www.cityam.com/article/london-rules

The point still stands

To some people the end of the world is not being able to get the latest Audi S-line as a company to park on the driveway of there comfortable 4 bedroom house to others the end of the world is ending up in a cardboard box sleeping in an archway.

Seeing that when the stock market crashes we have multi millionaries leaping to their death with a 10 grand watch on their wrist I feel my point is more then valid

Although I can see your point to an extent, I strongly disagree. Another Labour government would cause another downgrade of the UK's rating (lack of historical financial prudency) wrecking the UK's ability to repay the debts owing owing to increased rates of repayment, wrecking the UK economy far worse in the long term.

Relating to what you are saying, although the salaries are deemed higher living costs are also multiples: Pokey 2 bedroom flat = £750k+ plus a £150+pm service charge in many parts of London, a mansion tax as proposed backed labour would result in an all out assault on all people in the south east. How long until these values are rated down further to other property value bands and increased anually ala fuel duty?

Capping of bankers bonuses also wouldn't work - it will just cause the salaried proportion of pay to increase, lessening the Bank's ability to flex pay according to the performance of the company and giving no future rights of clawback, increasing fixed costs and leaving them slower to react as well as being more prone to difficulty in future recessions owing to the same.

Increasing the top rate of tax - It will just cause more informed, better paid workers to structure their incomes more efficiently or worst case many firms to cease to base themselves in the UK - other countries have far lower rates of corporation and personal taxes making them far more attractive for business....

Yes I work for a Bank in the city but it's not all rosey, I am not well paid (not far above national average) and after rent and house related bills I have about £800 a month to myself, oh and to top it all off I am soon to be in no job owing to the wishes of one particular government (non-uk) to score a cheap political win and write new legislation to liquidate my company, meaning no redundancy, no job security etc and all in an environment where businesses are cutting headcount. I say politcal, as this will have easily cost that governemnt many £billions in the UK alone over what was being done previously.

How would I fix it?

Leave the city to prosper and gradually bring UK Plc back, don't stifle what a country is good at.
Review governemnt spending - Cut oversea's aid (fix our own problems first), prioritise infastructure projects with any savings inc. hub airports (kick starting construction would create so many more jobs as construction workers are over-represented in unemployment)
Flat tax rate 26-30% with a £12k tax free allowance would cause little need for people to work to be as tax efficient as there is less motive for doing so. It is also far easier to administer leading to a reduction in costs at HMRC.
Temporary halving of Corp tax for a c. 3 year period to encourage growth and promote investment.
Cutbacks of services available on the NHS - cosmetic, stress etc plus a cull of middle management.
Stamp duty - streamlinging, make it more akin to income, making the higher rate only apply to the value of the portion above the previous value to allow greater movement - Possibly another stamp duty holiday for properties - up to £250k

These are just a few idea's which although may see no reduction in the deficit would promote sustainable growth whilst streamlining the UK's operations.

[Spiritual_Beggar]

[redacted]

[Mark Benson]

Breadvan72 said:

I am a substantial net contributor to the state, and do not buy the idea that Labour is simply about handouts and subsidies. Some of the worst mistakes made by Blair and Brown were associated with their spinelessness towards the City and their dazzled infatuation with business in general. The public sector has been infested by daft ideas culled from half baked private sector management courses. I spent two years working on the Mid Staffs hospital inquiry, and that was an amazing education on how to cock up a public resource by applying what are essentially centre right ideas to its organisation, ethos and operation.

Labour are currently, I think, the least bad of a very bad bunch indeed. This does not mean that they are not rubbish, but we are choosing here between bad and worse. I entirely accept that many will legitimately think that Tory rubbish is better than Labour rubbish, and they may be right. I am merely expressing my own assessment of the big piles of ste on offer.

I think the problem both sets of 'traditional' Labour and Tory voters are experiencing is simply down to the rise of the professional politician and the subsequent headlong rush to the 'centre ground' which is where their advisers and pollsters tell them the best chance of winning an election is.

Where did all the conviction (as opposed to convicted) politicians go?

[Elroy Blue]

[redacted]

[simoid]

Elroy Blue said:

simoid said:

I'd try to cheer up a bit if I were you

It's a bit difficult when your profession is being decimated (and thereby affecting your ability to assist the public) on the basis 'there's no money left' while at the same time £14 billlion a year gets sounked on overseas 'aid' and more on bloody windmills. Then you find a large number of senior Politicians are heavily involved in the green industry and firms that benefit from the very 'aid' they give out.

So if it's money spent for what you think is good (which happens to be your profession) then that's OK, but spending it elsewhere isn't?

Gotcha.

[McWigglebum4th]

kiethton said:

McWigglebum4th said:

kiethton said:

McWigglebum4th said:

I suppose the problem is what do you define as far worse?

I imagine for the city boys it might be something like not being able to afford the 21"inch wheel package on their latest s-line

Hmmmm before you start slating the city....again....you may want to read this

http://www.cityam.com/article/london-rules

The point still stands

To some people the end of the world is not being able to get the latest Audi S-line as a company to park on the driveway of there comfortable 4 bedroom house to others the end of the world is ending up in a cardboard box sleeping in an archway.

Seeing that when the stock market crashes we have multi millionaries leaping to their death with a 10 grand watch on their wrist I feel my point is more then valid

Although I can see your point to an extent, I strongly disagree. Another Labour government would cause another downgrade of the UK's rating (lack of historical financial prudency) wrecking the UK's ability to repay the debts owing owing to increased rates of repayment, wrecking the UK economy far worse in the long term.

:waffle snipped:

So what are you disagreeing with?

That labour will see everyone in the UK instantly homeless in a 3rd world country or people jumping from building while wearing a 10grand watch posibly have a warped view of what is the end of the world

[EDLT]

Third world country, instantly. Those red ties are born evil and do everything they can to destroy the country because that is clearly the best way to be re-elected.

[youngsyr]

For me it comes down to a very simple question, what do you see as the best way to deal with the current financial situation our country finds itself in:

1) the government should borrow more and spend it (Labour); or
2) the government should borrow less and spend less (Tory).

None of the other parties are going to get in, except possibly as the junior member of a coalition with one of the above.

Personally I think if you opt for (1), you're barmy, but option (2) isn't guaranteed to work either.

[crankedup]

jdw1234 said:

Why would anyone who isn't reliant on the state want to vote Labour?

To some extent most of the population is reliant on the state for certain needs. The basics of Social Fabric, Health, transport, education, Law. Problem is so many people have been brain-washed into seeing benefits / tie colour with cash hand outs.

[markcoznottz]

[redacted]

[kiethton]

McWigglebum4th said:

kiethton said:

McWigglebum4th said:

kiethton said:

McWigglebum4th said:

I suppose the problem is what do you define as far worse?

I imagine for the city boys it might be something like not being able to afford the 21"inch wheel package on their latest s-line

Hmmmm before you start slating the city....again....you may want to read this

http://www.cityam.com/article/london-rules

The point still stands

To some people the end of the world is not being able to get the latest Audi S-line as a company to park on the driveway of there comfortable 4 bedroom house to others the end of the world is ending up in a cardboard box sleeping in an archway.

Seeing that when the stock market crashes we have multi millionaries leaping to their death with a 10 grand watch on their wrist I feel my point is more then valid

Although I can see your point to an extent, I strongly disagree. Another Labour government would cause another downgrade of the UK's rating (lack of historical financial prudency) wrecking the UK's ability to repay the debts owing owing to increased rates of repayment, wrecking the UK economy far worse in the long term.

:waffle snipped:

So what are you disagreeing with?

That labour will see everyone in the UK instantly homeless in a 3rd world country or people jumping from building while wearing a 10grand watch posibly have a warped view of what is the end of the world

Well not quite that bad but similar, we would go the similar way to Spain/Italy (not as bad as greece).

Lack of investment/PE from abroad owing to hightened risk/lack of confidence would cause widespread redundancies in the city and a collapse of house prices, which when coupled with the fact people in the south east are servicing far higher debts to live would cause a disproportionate effect, especially when coupled with Labours planned actions as highlighted above.

Its not about specifics, although those in the South East and financial services will be disproportionatly affected a Labour government would be to the debtriment of everybody!

[Gogoplata]

Breadvan72 said:

and the attack on human rights

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the last Labour government removed more human rights what with all of the new laws that they introduced under the guise of anti-terrorism.

Off the top of my head I'm not quite sure what the current government have done to human rights?

[Spiritual_Beggar]

[redacted]

[anonymous-user]

Gogoplata said:

Breadvan72 said:

and the attack on human rights

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the last Labour government removed more human rights what with all of the new laws that they introduced under the guise of anti-terrorism.

Off the top of my head I'm not quite sure what the current government have done to human rights?

In my opinion, you are wrong. The human rights balance sheet of the last Government is far stronger than that of the current one.

The last Government did indeed introduce a lot of paranoid and authoritarian rubbish about terrorism, but they also enacted the HRA, brought in FOIA, introduced minimum wage and civil partnerships, produced the Equalities Act
(key parts of which the present Government decline to bring in to force), and stood up for human rights in the Balkans, Sierra Leone, and Afghanistan, before going on to screw it all up in Iraq.

The current Government has scrapped ID cards, but it has continued the paranoid authoritarian stuff. It wants secret courts, and intrusive internet scrutiny. Theresa May seeks to place her diktats above Acts of Parliament, and attacks judicial independence. She now proposes to repeal the HRA, and sever ties with the court in Strasbourg. I would not oppose the latter, but the HRA has produced benefits for UK citizens. These are ALMOST never reported. Only the rarer cases in which scrotes and foreigners do well get any public attention.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 14th March 11:07