Strasbourg EU Parliament........a waste of money?
Discussion
eharding said:
...and welcome back.
Obviously, the EU parliament shuttle is an absurdity, a long distant pact to keep the French sweet. Even the Frogs can see it doesn't make much sense, but one of those things that they'd be loath to give up, on principle.
Much, whisper it, like the UK's EU rebate.
Which will probably have the 'kipper's brain-pans exploding all over their copies of the Daily Mail.
Seriously though, chaps - the only way you're going to get any headway on the UK pushing through EU reform is through a Conservative government. It might be slow, it might be like watching paint dry, and it might not grab the attention of those with an attention span of a concussed bumble-bee...but that's how - if it happens at all - it's going to be.
Otherwise, you can froth as much as you like. Even a 'kipper wet dream of a result in 2015 would simply split the right-of-centre vote - I know we keep banging on about this, and make no mistake we will keep banging on about it - and you're going to get an even more EU-phile party in power.
The "Better Red Than Light Blue" 'kipper brigade should take note from the UKIP MEP sentiment:
Obviously, the EU parliament shuttle is an absurdity, a long distant pact to keep the French sweet. Even the Frogs can see it doesn't make much sense, but one of those things that they'd be loath to give up, on principle.
Much, whisper it, like the UK's EU rebate.
Which will probably have the 'kipper's brain-pans exploding all over their copies of the Daily Mail.
Seriously though, chaps - the only way you're going to get any headway on the UK pushing through EU reform is through a Conservative government. It might be slow, it might be like watching paint dry, and it might not grab the attention of those with an attention span of a concussed bumble-bee...but that's how - if it happens at all - it's going to be.
Otherwise, you can froth as much as you like. Even a 'kipper wet dream of a result in 2015 would simply split the right-of-centre vote - I know we keep banging on about this, and make no mistake we will keep banging on about it - and you're going to get an even more EU-phile party in power.
The "Better Red Than Light Blue" 'kipper brigade should take note from the UKIP MEP sentiment:
'kipper MEP said:
Our first instinct, given the choice between two bad outcomes, is to vote for the less bad option.
How much like the UK's rebate is the Strasbourg commute? The UK is a net contributor and gets a bit of that money back... the Strasbourg commute is just a waste of money and environmentally obscene.
I'm saddened to see you link the Strasbourg commute and the vote UKIP get Labour argument come up... I had expected mention of racism or Hitler. Still the night is young!
brenflys777 said:
eharding said:
...and welcome back.
Obviously, the EU parliament shuttle is an absurdity, a long distant pact to keep the French sweet. Even the Frogs can see it doesn't make much sense, but one of those things that they'd be loath to give up, on principle.
Much, whisper it, like the UK's EU rebate.
Which will probably have the 'kipper's brain-pans exploding all over their copies of the Daily Mail.
Seriously though, chaps - the only way you're going to get any headway on the UK pushing through EU reform is through a Conservative government. It might be slow, it might be like watching paint dry, and it might not grab the attention of those with an attention span of a concussed bumble-bee...but that's how - if it happens at all - it's going to be.
Otherwise, you can froth as much as you like. Even a 'kipper wet dream of a result in 2015 would simply split the right-of-centre vote - I know we keep banging on about this, and make no mistake we will keep banging on about it - and you're going to get an even more EU-phile party in power.
The "Better Red Than Light Blue" 'kipper brigade should take note from the UKIP MEP sentiment:
Obviously, the EU parliament shuttle is an absurdity, a long distant pact to keep the French sweet. Even the Frogs can see it doesn't make much sense, but one of those things that they'd be loath to give up, on principle.
Much, whisper it, like the UK's EU rebate.
Which will probably have the 'kipper's brain-pans exploding all over their copies of the Daily Mail.
Seriously though, chaps - the only way you're going to get any headway on the UK pushing through EU reform is through a Conservative government. It might be slow, it might be like watching paint dry, and it might not grab the attention of those with an attention span of a concussed bumble-bee...but that's how - if it happens at all - it's going to be.
Otherwise, you can froth as much as you like. Even a 'kipper wet dream of a result in 2015 would simply split the right-of-centre vote - I know we keep banging on about this, and make no mistake we will keep banging on about it - and you're going to get an even more EU-phile party in power.
The "Better Red Than Light Blue" 'kipper brigade should take note from the UKIP MEP sentiment:
'kipper MEP said:
Our first instinct, given the choice between two bad outcomes, is to vote for the less bad option.
How much like the UK's rebate is the Strasbourg commute? The UK is a net contributor and gets a bit of that money back... the Strasbourg commute is just a waste of money and environmentally obscene.
I'm saddened to see you link the Strasbourg commute and the vote UKIP get Labour argument come up... I had expected mention of racism or Hitler. Still the night is young!
As for racism and Hitler - well, as the 'kippers keep pointing out, it is to the credit of UKIP that every time one of their candidates turns out to be a nutjob Brown Shirt wannabee, they throw them out of the party....and they keep having to do so with depressing regularity.
eharding said:
brenflys777 said:
eharding said:
...and welcome back.
Obviously, the EU parliament shuttle is an absurdity, a long distant pact to keep the French sweet. Even the Frogs can see it doesn't make much sense, but one of those things that they'd be loath to give up, on principle.
Much, whisper it, like the UK's EU rebate.
Which will probably have the 'kipper's brain-pans exploding all over their copies of the Daily Mail.
Seriously though, chaps - the only way you're going to get any headway on the UK pushing through EU reform is through a Conservative government. It might be slow, it might be like watching paint dry, and it might not grab the attention of those with an attention span of a concussed bumble-bee...but that's how - if it happens at all - it's going to be.
Otherwise, you can froth as much as you like. Even a 'kipper wet dream of a result in 2015 would simply split the right-of-centre vote - I know we keep banging on about this, and make no mistake we will keep banging on about it - and you're going to get an even more EU-phile party in power.
The "Better Red Than Light Blue" 'kipper brigade should take note from the UKIP MEP sentiment:
Obviously, the EU parliament shuttle is an absurdity, a long distant pact to keep the French sweet. Even the Frogs can see it doesn't make much sense, but one of those things that they'd be loath to give up, on principle.
Much, whisper it, like the UK's EU rebate.
Which will probably have the 'kipper's brain-pans exploding all over their copies of the Daily Mail.
Seriously though, chaps - the only way you're going to get any headway on the UK pushing through EU reform is through a Conservative government. It might be slow, it might be like watching paint dry, and it might not grab the attention of those with an attention span of a concussed bumble-bee...but that's how - if it happens at all - it's going to be.
Otherwise, you can froth as much as you like. Even a 'kipper wet dream of a result in 2015 would simply split the right-of-centre vote - I know we keep banging on about this, and make no mistake we will keep banging on about it - and you're going to get an even more EU-phile party in power.
The "Better Red Than Light Blue" 'kipper brigade should take note from the UKIP MEP sentiment:
'kipper MEP said:
Our first instinct, given the choice between two bad outcomes, is to vote for the less bad option.
How much like the UK's rebate is the Strasbourg commute? The UK is a net contributor and gets a bit of that money back... the Strasbourg commute is just a waste of money and environmentally obscene.
I'm saddened to see you link the Strasbourg commute and the vote UKIP get Labour argument come up... I had expected mention of racism or Hitler. Still the night is young!
As for racism and Hitler - well, as the 'kippers keep pointing out, it is to the credit of UKIP that every time one of their candidates turns out to be a nutjob Brown Shirt wannabee, they throw them out of the party....and they keep having to do so with depressing regularity.
If the vote UKIP get Labour message is the best the Conservatives or Libdems can do to enthuse voters then the only thing that will need to get hammered are prospective Conservative or Libdem candidates!
Back to the EU - you have said this is absurd - why hasn't PM Cameron done anything? We are facing cutbacks at home, why isn't he shouting from the rooftops that this is money we can save instantly if the EU reforms? How much did the child benefit save or the under occupancy penalty save compared to our contributions for this?
brenflys777 said:
Back to the EU - you have said this is absurd - why hasn't PM Cameron done anything? We are facing cutbacks at home, why isn't he shouting from the rooftops that this is money we can save instantly if the EU reforms? How much did the child benefit save or the under occupancy penalty save compared to our contributions for this?
Because, as I've said, it is part of the messy bag of deals that keeps the French sweet.European dynamics have always been, are now, and probably always will be incredibly messy.
The pragmatist approach is to deal with it the best we can. I subscribe to that approach.
The fantasist approach is to pretend that if we can somehow avoid the fact we are - bar a bit of flooding - part of the European continent, and that if the can just stick our fingers deep enough into our ears, scream loud enough, and stamp our feet hard enough we can make it go away. That, I would submit, is the UKIP approach.
But back to the trenches. There must be a video of Farage banging on about the Strasbourg commute - where is it?
brenflys777 said:
brenflys777 said:
So how is the UK rebate - whisper it - like the Strasbourg commute?
You keep missing this bit - you compared the Strasbourg commute to the UK rebate - how are they in any way similar?
eharding said:
Oh, don't worry - the "vote UKIP get Labour" message is progressively going to be hammered home a lot from here on in to 2015 - so that the voting punters understand what the deal is.
you keep banging that drum as much as you like... trouble is with intellectuals like yourself..... you think of us as mug "punters"... if the recent surveys are right UKIP's popularity is going up every day.....perhaps you need to get a bigger "hammer" to bang your drum with because it doesn't seem if it is being heard? To answer the OP - Yes it is a shocking waste.
To answer the question about transport/living allowances. They get a fixed amount per year, irrespective of whether it is more or less than they actually spend. I don't know how much it is but I feel fairly certain it will be rather generous.
The whole thing has obviously become very broken. The concept is a good one, however.
It should be fixed, not abandoned.
To answer the question about transport/living allowances. They get a fixed amount per year, irrespective of whether it is more or less than they actually spend. I don't know how much it is but I feel fairly certain it will be rather generous.
The whole thing has obviously become very broken. The concept is a good one, however.
It should be fixed, not abandoned.
psgcarey said:
To answer the OP - Yes it is a shocking waste.
To answer the question about transport/living allowances. They get a fixed amount per year, irrespective of whether it is more or less than they actually spend. I don't know how much it is but I feel fairly certain it will be rather generous.
The whole thing has obviously become very broken. The concept is a good one, however.
It should be fixed, not abandoned.
I don't think it can ever be 'fixed' the EU has got too big. They have lost sight of any possible meaningful change , the whole thing would need dismantling and starting again. I think there are still some elements of the EU in Luxembourg so I presume they need to move between the two other sites. To answer the question about transport/living allowances. They get a fixed amount per year, irrespective of whether it is more or less than they actually spend. I don't know how much it is but I feel fairly certain it will be rather generous.
The whole thing has obviously become very broken. The concept is a good one, however.
It should be fixed, not abandoned.
dav123a said:
psgcarey said:
To answer the OP - Yes it is a shocking waste.
To answer the question about transport/living allowances. They get a fixed amount per year, irrespective of whether it is more or less than they actually spend. I don't know how much it is but I feel fairly certain it will be rather generous.
The whole thing has obviously become very broken. The concept is a good one, however.
It should be fixed, not abandoned.
I don't think it can ever be 'fixed' the EU has got too big. They have lost sight of any possible meaningful change , the whole thing would need dismantling and starting again. I think there are still some elements of the EU in Luxembourg so I presume they need to move between the two other sites. To answer the question about transport/living allowances. They get a fixed amount per year, irrespective of whether it is more or less than they actually spend. I don't know how much it is but I feel fairly certain it will be rather generous.
The whole thing has obviously become very broken. The concept is a good one, however.
It should be fixed, not abandoned.
eharding said:
brenflys777 said:
brenflys777 said:
So how is the UK rebate - whisper it - like the Strasbourg commute?
You keep missing this bit - you compared the Strasbourg commute to the UK rebate - how are they in any way similar?If your Belgians or Chermans(?) think it is unfair for the UK to be bribed with a little of our net contribution to accept financial irregularities I would agree. Now should we accept the Strasbourg commute because it bribes the French out of everybody's money?
To further differentiate between the two EU patches - the rebate is an accounting smudge - the Strasbourg commute involves tons of wasted fuel, time, resources because the French would not compromise. Shouldn't Cameron be refusing to accept any EU environmental requirements that disadvantage the UK businesses until the EU fix this?
mrpink said:
dav123a said:
psgcarey said:
To answer the OP - Yes it is a shocking waste.
To answer the question about transport/living allowances. They get a fixed amount per year, irrespective of whether it is more or less than they actually spend. I don't know how much it is but I feel fairly certain it will be rather generous.
The whole thing has obviously become very broken. The concept is a good one, however.
It should be fixed, not abandoned.
I don't think it can ever be 'fixed' the EU has got too big. They have lost sight of any possible meaningful change , the whole thing would need dismantling and starting again. I think there are still some elements of the EU in Luxembourg so I presume they need to move between the two other sites. To answer the question about transport/living allowances. They get a fixed amount per year, irrespective of whether it is more or less than they actually spend. I don't know how much it is but I feel fairly certain it will be rather generous.
The whole thing has obviously become very broken. The concept is a good one, however.
It should be fixed, not abandoned.
brenflys777 said:
Noticed some of the Pro-EU posters have been on tonight and thought its probably worth a bump - can anyone offer a better reason than ehardings 'messy price of doing business in the EU'?
Bored, and down-route, tonight are you? As I've said, the commute is a travesty - and explained why it still continues. If you can find some other soul who can offer up a better reason why, then good luck.
eharding said:
brenflys777 said:
Noticed some of the Pro-EU posters have been on tonight and thought its probably worth a bump - can anyone offer a better reason than ehardings 'messy price of doing business in the EU'?
Bored, and down-route, tonight are you? As I've said, the commute is a travesty - and explained why it still continues. If you can find some other soul who can offer up a better reason why, then good luck.
I'm just surprised that your reason for its continued existence is the best ( and only ) one offered by the normally effusive pro-EU posters, because it seems such a poor reason for continued waste. It just reminds me of Blair dismissing Prescott's behaviour as it being 'John being John'.. just because its a tremendous waste of space thats been around politics for a long time doesn't seem to excuse its continued existence.
The EU is introducing further taxes on Air Fares for environmental reasons, these will harm the UK's ability to compete, but it continues to waste tons of fuel, time and effort to move between Brussels and Strasbourg. I would say it is beyond a travesty and into indefensible... unless there is a better explanation than yours
"Obviously, the EU parliament shuttle is an absurdity, a long distant pact to keep the French sweet. Even the Frogs can see it doesn't make much sense, but one of those things that they'd be loath to give up, on principle".
So that's it then? well if it's just to keep the Frogs happy perhaps it's about time a we barricaded Dover, which is what they would do in the reverse until they got their way.
One thing I will say for them they will act if they think their national interest is at risk.Perhaps the UK is awakening to this at last though?
So that's it then? well if it's just to keep the Frogs happy perhaps it's about time a we barricaded Dover, which is what they would do in the reverse until they got their way.
One thing I will say for them they will act if they think their national interest is at risk.Perhaps the UK is awakening to this at last though?
brenflys777 said:
eharding said:
brenflys777 said:
Noticed some of the Pro-EU posters have been on tonight and thought its probably worth a bump - can anyone offer a better reason than ehardings 'messy price of doing business in the EU'?
Bored, and down-route, tonight are you? As I've said, the commute is a travesty - and explained why it still continues. If you can find some other soul who can offer up a better reason why, then good luck.
I'm just surprised that your reason for its continued existence is the best ( and only ) one offered by the normally effusive pro-EU posters, because it seems such a poor reason for continued waste. It just reminds me of Blair dismissing Prescott's behaviour as it being 'John being John'.. just because its a tremendous waste of space thats been around politics for a long time doesn't seem to excuse its continued existence.
The EU is introducing further taxes on Air Fares for environmental reasons, these will harm the UK's ability to compete, but it continues to waste tons of fuel, time and effort to move between Brussels and Strasbourg. I would say it is beyond a travesty and into indefensible... unless there is a better explanation than yours
Yes, you don't get on with the Captain, because he doesn't concur with your assertion that because the 10% of the pax in Club provide 50% of the revenue on the flight, vs. the 90% down the back who smell of garlic and are clearly wasters, it would be a good idea to take that fire axe strapped to the bulkhead behind you, and adopting the UKIP stance to walk back down the cabin and start hacking away at the fuselage behind the last Club seat in order to get rid of all of those garlic freeloaders. In the cruise.
Understandably, that would lead to you meeting a lot of Duck Tape and some horse tranquilisers, and having a bit of a kip down the back.
Non?
eharding said:
brenflys777 said:
eharding said:
brenflys777 said:
Noticed some of the Pro-EU posters have been on tonight and thought its probably worth a bump - can anyone offer a better reason than ehardings 'messy price of doing business in the EU'?
Bored, and down-route, tonight are you? As I've said, the commute is a travesty - and explained why it still continues. If you can find some other soul who can offer up a better reason why, then good luck.
I'm just surprised that your reason for its continued existence is the best ( and only ) one offered by the normally effusive pro-EU posters, because it seems such a poor reason for continued waste. It just reminds me of Blair dismissing Prescott's behaviour as it being 'John being John'.. just because its a tremendous waste of space thats been around politics for a long time doesn't seem to excuse its continued existence.
The EU is introducing further taxes on Air Fares for environmental reasons, these will harm the UK's ability to compete, but it continues to waste tons of fuel, time and effort to move between Brussels and Strasbourg. I would say it is beyond a travesty and into indefensible... unless there is a better explanation than yours
Yes, you don't get on with the Captain, because he doesn't concur with your assertion that because the 10% of the pax in Club provide 50% of the revenue on the flight, vs. the 90% down the back who smell of garlic and are clearly wasters, it would be a good idea to take that fire axe strapped to the bulkhead behind you, and adopting the UKIP stance to walk back down the cabin and start hacking away at the fuselage behind the last Club seat in order to get rid of all of those garlic freeloaders. In the cruise.
Understandably, that would lead to you meeting a lot of Duck Tape and some horse tranquilisers, and having a bit of a kip down the back.
Non?
eharding said:
Think of it as a CRM problem.
Yes, you don't get on with the Captain, because he doesn't concur with your assertion that because the 10% of the pax in Club provide 50% of the revenue on the flight, vs. the 90% down the back who smell of garlic and are clearly wasters, it would be a good idea to take that fire axe strapped to the bulkhead behind you, and adopting the UKIP stance to walk back down the cabin and start hacking away at the fuselage behind the last Club seat in order to get rid of all of those garlic freeloaders. In the cruise.
Understandably, that would lead to you meeting a lot of Duck Tape and some horse tranquilisers, and having a bit of a kip down the back.
Non?
It's not a very good analogy, it would be closer to imagine a flight from London to Brussels that unnecessarily diverts to Strasbourg every month because one of the cabin crew is French and has shares in the duty free shop there.. It would be ridiculous unless you had shares in the company and were required to pay for it, then it would be indefensible.Yes, you don't get on with the Captain, because he doesn't concur with your assertion that because the 10% of the pax in Club provide 50% of the revenue on the flight, vs. the 90% down the back who smell of garlic and are clearly wasters, it would be a good idea to take that fire axe strapped to the bulkhead behind you, and adopting the UKIP stance to walk back down the cabin and start hacking away at the fuselage behind the last Club seat in order to get rid of all of those garlic freeloaders. In the cruise.
Understandably, that would lead to you meeting a lot of Duck Tape and some horse tranquilisers, and having a bit of a kip down the back.
Non?
It would be even more appropriate if when you pointed out how wasteful it was, you were accused of being racist because it was a foreigner who was wasting your cash!
Edited by brenflys777 on Tuesday 19th March 10:50
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