Discussion
Alex said:
There are economic arguments for both options.
The real reasons we should leave are for sovereignty, independence and democracy. The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable. That's why we should leave whether we will be better off or not.
Absolutely this.The real reasons we should leave are for sovereignty, independence and democracy. The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable. That's why we should leave whether we will be better off or not.
There are endless economic arguments for and against and they're all based on unknowns and unknowables.
The only thing that really counts here is democratic self government.
12/18 months ago I would have voted to exit, on the grounds of our economy and because of threatened closer union.
Now, after what has happened since there isn't a cat in hells chance that I would not vote for exit. The sooner the better.
I sincerely hope that we do get at least close to exit and the effect, at least, is to lead to massive change and roll back of what the EU has become.
Now, after what has happened since there isn't a cat in hells chance that I would not vote for exit. The sooner the better.
I sincerely hope that we do get at least close to exit and the effect, at least, is to lead to massive change and roll back of what the EU has become.
AJS- said:
Alex said:
There are economic arguments for both options.
The real reasons we should leave are for sovereignty, independence and democracy. The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable. That's why we should leave whether we will be better off or not.
Absolutely this.The real reasons we should leave are for sovereignty, independence and democracy. The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable. That's why we should leave whether we will be better off or not.
There are endless economic arguments for and against and they're all based on unknowns and unknowables.
The only thing that really counts here is democratic self government.
My vote is to stay in. I have seen nothing to convince me that we would be overall better off outside the EU. Not really bothered about the more democratic control argument as unless we moved to a direct democratic model (like Switzerland) then I don't see much changing in terms of individual representation.
plasticpig said:
My vote is to stay in. I have seen nothing to convince me that we would be overall better off outside the EU. Not really bothered about the more democratic control argument as unless we moved to a direct democratic model (like Switzerland) then I don't see much changing in terms of individual representation.
This is why apathy will be the end of us all.wolves_wanderer said:
Happy to be convinced either way as I am completely on the fence. I don't particularly believe claims that we would be signing free trade deals with all and sundry in the first week after exit but neither do I believe that we are doomed if we exit.
there is a view that running with no trade deal could actually be the better outcome....Alex said:
There are economic arguments for both options.
The real reasons we should leave are for sovereignty, independence and democracy. The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable. That's why we should leave whether we will be better off or not.
So for me, those reasons don't bother me. It's not a lack of patriotism, or apathy. I just don't feel that our independence etc is affected by being in the EU. It's the economic argument that will steer me. The real reasons we should leave are for sovereignty, independence and democracy. The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable. That's why we should leave whether we will be better off or not.
Scuffers said:
wolves_wanderer said:
Happy to be convinced either way as I am completely on the fence. I don't particularly believe claims that we would be signing free trade deals with all and sundry in the first week after exit but neither do I believe that we are doomed if we exit.
there is a view that running with no trade deal could actually be the better outcome....KrissKross said:
The day we leave the EU we will be at least 8% better off.
I also find this unlikely. As I said, I am not particularly invested in either outcome, I'm probably slightly on the remain in the EU side at the moment. But it seems the Brexit side are a lot more pushy about the whole thing. Some anyway, not all. It's a bit like the Scottish Independence referendum where anyone wanting to stay in the UK was branded a traitor and someone who doesn't love their country. Edited by KrissKross on Monday 30th November 13:06
Rovinghawk said:
I believe we pay lots of money in & get access to a Single Market worth 4-5% of UK GDP a year
EFA. CBI figureshttp://news.cbi.org.uk/reports/our-global-future/o...
KrissKross said:
The day we leave the EU we will be at least 8% better off.
This video from Professor Patrick Minford is a clear insight into the ignorance of the politicians even when presented with facts about leaving the EU, its a bit long but worth viewing:
https://youtu.be/leKEUT1TiLU
Unfortunately you wont see this guy on QT any time soon.
He used to be my economics lecturer at Cardiff- a very bright guy This video from Professor Patrick Minford is a clear insight into the ignorance of the politicians even when presented with facts about leaving the EU, its a bit long but worth viewing:
https://youtu.be/leKEUT1TiLU
Unfortunately you wont see this guy on QT any time soon.
Edited by KrissKross on Monday 30th November 13:06
He wasn't much of a lecturer though
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