Thwaites Brewery trashed by travellers

[anonymous-user]

55palfers said:

La Liga said:

Awful situation for the brewery. I expect they picked a bank holiday deliberately.

Chief exec can't expect police statutory powers to be used any more quickly with the numbers.

skyrover said:

No f*cking arrests after that?

They'll be ID issues. You can't arrest 100 people.

No problem if they arrest all the drivers to start with - they must be able to prove who they are for insurance / license / permission to drive the vehicle purposes .

As Dibble explained, by ID, I don't mean identifying who an arrested person is. I mean IDing who has committed an offence.

Bigends said:

La Liga said:

hey'll be ID issues. You can't arrest 100 people.

The Police could have had the lot in on suspicion of causing the damage - whether any charges would have resulted is a different matter.

If theyd caught a bunch of pissed up local teenagers in there you can bet they'd have all been in custody smartish.

Logistical nightmare I know.

It seems odd to me with your policing history you'd even suggest such a thing.

2Btoo said:

What do you think should have been done, taking into account the logistics of the situation as well as the fact that it appears that some crimes have been committed, that has a chance of providing justice for the victims (brewery owners) and publically shows that offences like this will not be tolerated?

What is being done, a post-incident investigation.

Similar to, for example, larger disorder at a football match where resourcing limitations negate immediate action.

eldar said:

And the message is, if there are enough lawbreakers, the law doesn't apply. Which is a bit concerning.

Maybe a couple of forces could get together, pool resources and make a concerted effort.

Not at such short notice in the circumstances.

[Rovinghawk]

chrisgtx said:

Rest assured nothing will be done about this.
It’s getting worse, villages on lock down for example, horse and trap racing on busy road, although it seems to get a bit more attention on the news, but still nothing will be done.

Of course nothing will be done- it's too much like hard work.

Speeders OTOH are a safe, easy, profitable target. They are therefore prioritised over those that might be some effort.

Hurrah for justice & enforcement of (some of) the law.

[Rovinghawk]

La Liga said:

What is being done, a post-incident investigation.

[abzmike]

So what is the number of miscreants required to (allegedly) commit trespass, breaking and entry, criminal damage etc, and not be investigated because it’s logistically awkward? For the Police effectively hold their hands up and say ‘sorry guv, just to many of them’ is surely not good enough.

[Bigends]

La Liga said:

ot at such short notice in the circumstances.

I know exactly why they werent arrested - just playing devils advocate here. I saw similar inaction many times over the years however on most occasions theres simply an expensive fly tip clean up needed after theyve moved on. In this case theyve caused thousands of pounds worth of malicious damage and the Brewery owners should reasonably have expected some positive action to have been taken. Even forensics wont be of any use now. It'll be recorded, some token enquiries made and probably closed off, unless a minor unit has been set up to look into the matter.

[Greendubber]

I work for one of the largest forces and last night we had ZERO cell space. So not one single cell to put a prisoner in, every custody facility was on red, closed, at capacity.

It not about it being too hard work, it's about physically not being able to do it.

Not enough staff, no where to put prisoners, 999 calls going unresourced due to no one to send.

What do the critics such as Rovinghawk suggest happens next?

[55palfers]

Police managed to arrest 130 (probably mainly law abiding) cyclists - how was that managed?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-190231...

There just no will to deal with the problem.

[anonymous-user]

abzmike said:

So what is the number of miscreants required to (allegedly) commit trespass, breaking and entry, criminal damage etc, and not be investigated because it’s logistically awkward? For the Police effectively hold their hands up and say ‘sorry guv, just to many of them’ is surely not good enough.

It's not merely 'awkward', it's impossible. It'd ground the entire force and probably several others.

Bigends said:

I know exactly why they werent arrested - just playing devils advocate here. I saw similar inaction many times over the years however on most occasions theres simply an expensive clean up needed after theyve moved on. In this case theyve caused thousands of pounds worth of malicious damage and the Brewery owners should reasonably have expected some positive action to have been taken. Even forensics wont be of any use now. It'll be recorded, some token enquiries made and probably closed off, unless a minor unit has been set up to look into the matter.

You're not playing devil's advocate, you suggested a force with fewer than 3000 regular officers (with its relative infrastructure) arrest and process 100 people on a bank holiday weekend.

It's a ridiculous suggestion as I am sure you know.

[Rovinghawk]

Greendubber said:

What do the critics such as Rovinghawk suggest happens next?

Prioritise your workload- disregard burglary, shoplifting, minor assault, criminal damage.

Concentrate on speeders, facebook insults and Portugese investigations. Also any other vehicle crime not involving the nomadic community. Go for the low-hnging fruit every time.

If anyone objects claim that investigations are ongoing & lessons will be learned.

[Bigends]

La Liga said:

ou're not playing devil's advocate, you suggested a force with fewer than 3000 regular officers (with its relative infrastructure) arrest and process 100 people on a bank holiday weekend.

It's a ridiculous suggestion as I am sure you know.

Its not ridiculous at all - impractical maybe - some or all of the offenders may have been present - theres a victim been let down big time here

[anonymous-user]

55palfers said:

Police managed to arrest 130 (probably mainly law abiding) cyclists - how was that managed?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-190231...

There just no will to deal with the problem.

That is the Met police (12x larger than the force we're talking about) with vast pre-planned cancellations of annual leave, receiving tier three mutual aid i.e. 1000s of extra officers from other forces just to deal with public order issues surrounding the olypmics.

Bigends said:

La Liga said:

You're not playing devil's advocate, you suggested a force with fewer than 3000 regular officers (with its relative infrastructure) arrest and process 100 people on a bank holiday weekend.

It's a ridiculous suggestion as I am sure you know.

Its not ridiculous at all - impractical maybe - some or all of the offenders may have been present - theres a victim been let down big time here

The impracticability (practical impossibility) makes it ridiculous.

Find me an example of a force of that size making 100 arrests during a spontaneous incident.

[Heartworm]

55palfers said:

Police managed to arrest 130 (probably mainly law abiding) cyclists - how was that managed?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-190231...

There just no will to deal with the problem.

You arn't possibly comparing the two events are you,

[Greendubber]

55palfers said:

Police managed to arrest 130 (probably mainly law abiding) cyclists - how was that managed?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-190231...

There just no will to deal with the problem.

Biggest force in the country dealing with the biggest sporting event ever seen with officers on mutual aid from all over the country.

Not really a comparable set of circumstances.

[overunder12g]

So if you want to commit a crime, Choose a bank holiday weekend?
Or, yurn up with 100 other mates and prove too much to handle. Seems ok.

[Greendubber]

Rovinghawk said:

Greendubber said:

What do the critics such as Rovinghawk suggest happens next?

Prioritise your workload- disregard burglary, shoplifting, minor assault, criminal damage.

Concentrate on speeders, facebook insults and Portugese investigations. Also any other vehicle crime not involving the nomadic community. Go for the low-hnging fruit every time.

If anyone objects claim that investigations are ongoing & lessons will be learned.

You'd be happy with no response to your burglary? I f&cking doubt it.

I seem to recall a thread about you wanting the police to deal with a neighbours kid pouring a soft drink on your car?

[Bigends]

La Liga said:

he impracticability (practical impossibility) makes it ridiculous.

Find me an example of a force of that size making 100 arrests during a spontaneous incident.

I doubt there'll be such an an example. I'd be interested in hearing the explanation given to Thwaites management as to why no action was taken though. Dont get me wriong - I know exactly why no arrests were made - doesnt make it right for the public though does it?

[55palfers]

Heartworm said:

You arn't possibly comparing the two events are you,

Just suggesting that when there is a genuine will to tackle a perceived problem, resources are made available.

No doubt Policing in other areas of the capital and the places from which reinforcements were drawn suffered from a dilution of resource, but the powers that be decided that these cyclists posed a sufficiently large threat to public order to demand the CC do something.

[Rovinghawk]

Greendubber said:

You'd be happy with no response to your burglary? I f&cking doubt it.

Damn right. I was being sarcastic- the point I was making was far from subtle. I could try & explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

Greendubber said:

I seem to recall a thread about you wanting the police to deal with a neighbours kid pouring a soft drink on your car?

Actually it was the culmination of a long series of ASB, mainly against the more elderly neighours.

In that instance the local police were great- they actually got off their rear ends & did something, in sharp contrast to the parade of ineffectuality shown at Thwaites brewery and the excuses for doing sod all that the apologists are making.

[Turn7]

Pie Key SKUM are above the law these days and they absolutely know it sadly....

It would be a waste of a bullet to shoot them tbh....

[anonymous-user]

Turn7 said:

Pie Key SKUM are above the law these days and they absolutely know it sadly....

It would be a waste of a bullet to shoot them tbh....

Except all the ones in prison, naturally.

overunder12g said:

So if you want to commit a crime, Choose a bank holiday weekend? Or, yurn up with 100 other mates and prove too much to handle. Seems ok.

It doesn't need to be at that scale.

Officers attend many incidents where a crime has been committed and the offender is likely to be present but can't, for whatever reason, be identified. That doesn't result in everyone there being arrested.

For example damage to a licenced premises.

Bigends said:

La Liga said:

The impracticability (practical impossibility) makes it ridiculous.

Find me an example of a force of that size making 100 arrests during a spontaneous incident.

I doubt there'll be such an an example. I'd be interested in hearing the explanation given to Thwaites management as to why no action was taken though. Dont get me wriong - I know exactly why no arrests were made - doesnt make it right for the public though does it?

In an ideal world there'd be 200 officers available to arrest 100 people and the force have the infrastructure to handle it.

55palfers said:

Heartworm said:

You arn't possibly comparing the two events are you

Just suggesting that when there is a genuine will to tackle a perceived problem, resources are made available.

But that doesn't make that point.

Resources were available because there was a fair bit of notice the Olympics were coming to London.

Had there been a fair bit of notice 100 travellers were coming to cause damage to a location then suitable plans could also be made and contingencies put in place.