UK approves Pfizer jab for use in 12-15-year-olds
Discussion
ElectricSoup said:
This, and also the latest variants are liable to cause long Covid in younger people. I've got 2 teenagers, they both want the jab, and they'll both have my blessing when it's available to them. The benefits far outweigh any risks.
Someone mentioned "medicine by Facebook" up thread - what a great expression. These vaccines are no longer "experimental" as someone put it earlier. In fact, "experimental" isn't a helpful word and is not a proper clinical trial term in any case.
Please could everyone stop pushing dangerous and counterproductive "medicine by Facebook" nonsense. The vaccines are the way out, we are nearing the beginnning of the end of this pandemic, let's keep going and put an end to it. Sadly government policy surrently is acting against the ending of the pandemic in favour of political wins. They've let the Indian variant in, which has some vaccine escape, is far more easily tramsitted and can affect children far worse. It's verging on the criminal, and I hope one day those responsible pay the price. In the meantime our rulers are actually hampering the scientists and medical experts who developed the vaccines by making decisions which have compromised their efficiency.
If you have believed everything thus far, and complied, you are heavily invested in it, I get that. Someone mentioned "medicine by Facebook" up thread - what a great expression. These vaccines are no longer "experimental" as someone put it earlier. In fact, "experimental" isn't a helpful word and is not a proper clinical trial term in any case.
Please could everyone stop pushing dangerous and counterproductive "medicine by Facebook" nonsense. The vaccines are the way out, we are nearing the beginnning of the end of this pandemic, let's keep going and put an end to it. Sadly government policy surrently is acting against the ending of the pandemic in favour of political wins. They've let the Indian variant in, which has some vaccine escape, is far more easily tramsitted and can affect children far worse. It's verging on the criminal, and I hope one day those responsible pay the price. In the meantime our rulers are actually hampering the scientists and medical experts who developed the vaccines by making decisions which have compromised their efficiency.
It will be very difficult for people to regain their senses I fear before huge mistakes are made and there are many regrets.
WRT your statement on the status of the experimental V that is not experimental in your eyes, see above again.
It is easier to fool a man than it is to convince him he has been fooled.
I genuinely fear that a lot of good people have been lied to, coerced and led by propaganda to a position where they are incapable of rational thought. And I genuinely wish you and yours are not badly affected in the long term by these medical treatments.
monkfish1 said:
ElectricSoup said:
This, and also the latest variants are liable to cause long Covid in younger people. I've got 2 teenagers, they both want the jab, and they'll both have my blessing when it's available to them. The benefits far outweigh any risks.
Says who? Not all the risks are known yet. Nor will be for some time. When enough data has been collected, it will get product approval. Which, lets be clear, it doesnt have.Until then, your assertion is based on little other than belief.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57358446
Second bold: what are you talking about? This thread is actually about the fact that it HAS been approved for 12-15 year olds now.
Edited by ElectricSoup on Friday 4th June 12:57
blackrabbit said:
I have two kids and will not let them have this and there is zero reason to take it. We do not know the longterm impact of taking this vaccine and problems could develop years from now in growing children. Wonder if people in government will let their kids take it?
Bit like Blair when he wouldn’t say if his kid had had the mmr vaccine. 
. Gweeds said:
Because by removing the well of potential hosts, you reduce the chance of mutations/variants which may be vaccine resistant and which could then affect those who could die?
Do you not see any ethical challenges in this position? Especially considering:- The current vaccine isn’t officially approved till 2023
- The hypothetical variant you mentioned hasn’t actually happened yet
- Kids are at effectively zero risk from Covid
- Kids cannot give consent to do this for the good of society
Would be genuinely interested in how people square this ethically.
I have been shocked every day since Covid started but I don’t have words to describe how I feel about this!
Edited by dmahon on Friday 4th June 13:10
BUG4LIFE said:
Am in wrong in saying that at some point, somewhere, a health 12-18 year old is going to have the vaccine, have a bad reaction/blood clot and die? How on earth would the parents live with themselves?
Or, is there zero chance of this happening?!?!
Of course there is not zero chance of this happening. However, healthy 12-18 year olds have died already across the world from Covid. This number will always be significantly higher than adverse reactions to a vaccine. And many more have passed it on to someone else, who has subsequently died or been hospitalised.Or, is there zero chance of this happening?!?!
Nothing is risk free, but when presented with a choice, it's usually the better path to choose the lower risk where higher benfits accrue. Nobody wants to be in this situation, but we are where we are. A choice exists. Do nothing and risk (contracting and spreading) Covid, or vaccinate and risk adverse events. The benefits of taking the latter course outweigh its risks. Decision made for me.
blackrabbit said:
I have two kids and will not let them have this and there is zero reason to take it. We do not know the longterm impact of taking this vaccine and problems could develop years from now in growing children. Wonder if people in government will let their kids take it?
You may well find that it's not your choice, it's theirs.Gweeds said:
I'm not in favour of mandatory vaccinations, before anyone accuses me, but I don't buy that all this is to benefit Big Pharma. Speaking selfishly, my industry is in the toilet with another summer with the potential to be wiped out, so anything I can do to stop that happening I will.
Sorry, my 3 kids aren't getting vaccinated to help out your business. Zero upside for them and potentially, albeit minor, big unknown downsides.Now virtually all adults are vaccinated it is a waste of time anyway. Get the country fully open in 2 weeks and don't delay it any further by trying to get all kids jabbed. That will really help your business out.
BUG4LIFE said:
Am in wrong in saying that at some point, somewhere, a health 12-18 year old is going to have the vaccine, have a bad reaction/blood clot and die? How on earth would the parents live with themselves?
Or, is there zero chance of this happening?!?!
I hope you won’t be teaching your children how to drive or buying them a car to drive. How on earth would you live with yourself if they had a car accident and killed themselves. Or, is there zero chance of this happening?!?!
sugerbear said:
BUG4LIFE said:
Am in wrong in saying that at some point, somewhere, a health 12-18 year old is going to have the vaccine, have a bad reaction/blood clot and die? How on earth would the parents live with themselves?
Or, is there zero chance of this happening?!?!
I hope you won’t be teaching your children how to drive or buying them a car to drive. How on earth would you live with yourself if they had a car accident and killed themselves. Or, is there zero chance of this happening?!?!
ElectricSoup said:
BUG4LIFE said:
Am in wrong in saying that at some point, somewhere, a health 12-18 year old is going to have the vaccine, have a bad reaction/blood clot and die? How on earth would the parents live with themselves?
Or, is there zero chance of this happening?!?!
Of course there is not zero chance of this happening. However, healthy 12-18 year olds have died already across the world from Covid. This number will always be significantly higher than adverse reactions to a vaccine. And many more have passed it on to someone else, who has subsequently died or been hospitalised.Or, is there zero chance of this happening?!?!
Nothing is risk free, but when presented with a choice, it's usually the better path to choose the lower risk where higher benfits accrue. Nobody wants to be in this situation, but we are where we are. A choice exists. Do nothing and risk (contracting and spreading) Covid, or vaccinate and risk adverse events. The benefits of taking the latter course outweigh its risks. Decision made for me.
Of course the death of a child/teenager due to Covid is horrible but the risk to them is so so small. They DO NOT need the vaccine. A child shouldn't have to have the vaccine just in case they pass Covid on...crazy!
sugerbear said:
BUG4LIFE said:
Am in wrong in saying that at some point, somewhere, a health 12-18 year old is going to have the vaccine, have a bad reaction/blood clot and die? How on earth would the parents live with themselves?
Or, is there zero chance of this happening?!?!
I hope you won’t be teaching your children how to drive or buying them a car to drive. How on earth would you live with yourself if they had a car accident and killed themselves. Or, is there zero chance of this happening?!?!
pavarotti1980 said:
BUG4LIFE said:
A child shouldn't have to have the vaccine just in case they pass Covid on...crazy!
Why are they immunised against influenza as the risk of death is minute with that?Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 4th June 13:38
cb31 said:
Sorry, my 3 kids aren't getting vaccinated to help out your business. Zero upside for them and potentially, albeit minor, big unknown downsides.
Now virtually all adults are vaccinated it is a waste of time anyway. Get the country fully open in 2 weeks and don't delay it any further by trying to get all kids jabbed. That will really help your business out.
I didn’t ask them to. Now virtually all adults are vaccinated it is a waste of time anyway. Get the country fully open in 2 weeks and don't delay it any further by trying to get all kids jabbed. That will really help your business out.
I said anything *I* can do.
sutoka said:
MMR, Polio, Influenza vaccine developed over decades, Covid vaccines are still in the experimental stages until at least 2023, the people taking it are guinea pigs with no liability to the companies if someone dies as a result of the vaccine. Sky News quoting a serious health official saying ' benefits outweigh the risks", well try telling that to the hundreds of people who have died in the UK alone from blood clots and strokes for simply doing as the government advised and taking the vaccine.
Those that have died of blood clots and strokes are not kids though.Edited by sutoka on Friday 4th June 12:06
There's an element of comparing apples and oranges here. If you want to talk about the hundreds of adults that have died as a result of blood clots and strokes from taking the vaccine, you need to consider the 127k that have died 'from' (with) covid.
If we're specifically talking about dying from covid, that number is undoubtedly inflated. But it's certainly a bigger number than the few hundred you're talking about.
BUG4LIFE said:
The argument is one is tried and tested, the other isn't. I haven't got a 12-18 year old [mine is only 2] so currently don't have to make a choice, but my original post was how a parent would feel if their child dies of the vaccine for protection against something that really doesn't effect them. I don't buy the 'to protect others' BS...if the vaccine works on the vulnerable, they've got nowt to worry about anyway.
It can effect children though. I know of one that was critically ill in hospital last year. My niece is also struggling with side effects many months after.I read yesterday 10 children in Scotland in hospital. Malaysia reporting deaths of children and quite a lot in intensive care:
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/malaysi...
How would a parent feel if their child died and they refused the vaccine?
But I agree the vaccine has some unknown risk. I see there are cases of myocarditis being reported in young people after the MRNA vaccines.
It’s about weighing up the risks. I’m not a scientist, but I’d probably agree with them that the risk is greater with COVID (even if you factor in the chances of catching it).
BUG4LIFE said:
The argument is one is tried and tested, the other isn't. I haven't got a 12-18 year old [mine is only 2] so currently don't have to make a choice, but my original post was how a parent would feel if their child dies of the vaccine for protection against something that really doesn't effect them. I don't buy the 'to protect others' BS...if the vaccine works on the vulnerable, they've got nowt to worry about anyway.
Vaccines are not 100% effective and never have been.How much "testing" do you want to happen in drugs?
The COVID vaccines have been through
i) Phase 1 - small cohorts of patients looking at safety; pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics
ii) Phase 2 - larger cohort of patients looking at efficacy; optimising doses
iii) Phase 3 - larger cohort looking at the safety and efficacy; confirmation of doses; identifying adverse events; compare against current treatments or a control group and now are part of
iv) Phase 4 - Ongoing monitoring of efficacy; monitoring of adverse events following widespread use. Usually this happens upon commercial release of the product.
From your stance you would never consent to receive any new/experimental drug or take part in a clinical trial yourself or on behalf your children?
I do find it interesting that people will not take the advice of people who are experts in their fields (MHRA CHM; JCVI etc) whose motivation is the wellbeing of patients but the opinion of someone unqualified more readily
Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 4th June 14:08
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