The British should bail out the Russians apparently.

[isee]

beanbag said:

It's owned by Russians, yet the British have been asked to bail it out!?!?!!?

WTF!!!!?!?

http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2009/02/23/bus...

Why the fk don't the sodding Russians bail it out!?!?!? fking unbelievable.

This has riled me right up the fking wall.....

"Russian parent firm Gaz said without funding thousands of jobs were at risk, including 900 in Birmingham. "

I think if you didn't let your all consuming hatred for the Russians blind you, you would have found that there is nothing to be angry about... It's just a local business looking for a LOAN

There are much bigger things to be riled up the wall about. A train fare shared between 300 people being more expensive than 300 people driving 300 cars, or an important part of the country's infrastructure (power plants) being owned by a foreign state (French).

[Zod]

cardigankid said:

The whole story sounds to me like a con. Govt hands over £30m to Management Buyout Team. They pay the money to the Russians for the company. The company goes bust anyway. Effectively, UK pays Russians £30m.

Because Mandy was being entertained like a Roman Emperor on Boris Kalashnikov's yacht last summer, he is supposed to ok it without a fuss. That's how it would have worked in Mother Russia. Unfortunately the whole thing is now so high profile that the political reality is that Mandelson can't go within 100 miles of it.

That's my reading of it anyway. If this was bona fide, the buyout team would have some concept of where their money was coming from.

Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 24th February 07:32

exactly: the money would go to pay off Deripaska's January Amex Centurion bill.

[heebeegeetee]

beanbag said:

Why should our government even grant them a loan?

Surely the Russian government should be responsible for this?

If the factory closes, the government aka the taxpayer is going to pay, whether we like it or not.

[Zod]

no money for any Russian's business interests until the yachts, jets, houses around the world, football clubs etc are sold.

If you think that giving money to Deripaska would allow LDV to live longer than a year, hbgt, then you are deluded.

Wait, we already know you are deluded!

[beanbag]

Vanya said:

Nadyenka said:

beanbag said:

funding the Russian bh wife.


For this reason I have a lot of contempt for them in general. Perhaps this is a sweeping statement to make but I accept there is the exception to this rule and there are a lot of good Russian business persons out there. I've just yet to meet them.

It is stupid statement

I completely agree Nadyenka, quite offensive... no wait... very offensive.

Oh well. No apologies for this. Even my Russian friends wholeheartedly agree....

isee said:

beanbag said:

It's owned by Russians, yet the British have been asked to bail it out!?!?!!?

WTF!!!!?!?

http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2009/02/23/bus...

Why the fk don't the sodding Russians bail it out!?!?!? fking unbelievable.

This has riled me right up the fking wall.....

"Russian parent firm Gaz said without funding thousands of jobs were at risk, including 900 in Birmingham. "

I think if you didn't let your all consuming hatred for the Russians blind you, you would have found that there is nothing to be angry about... It's just a local business looking for a LOAN

There are much bigger things to be riled up the wall about. A train fare shared between 300 people being more expensive than 300 people driving 300 cars, or an important part of the country's infrastructure (power plants) being owned by a foreign state (French).

I never used the word "hate". I don't hate anyone. I said "contempt" and it's not directed at Russia in general or everyone there. I like Russians a lot. In fact, one of my best drinking buddies is Russian and I have many Russian friends. I just don't trust their businesses and practices and nor do most of my Russian friends.

Don't forget that Russia is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. On a scale of 0 to 10 (with the latter being least corrupt), Russia has a corruption level of 2.1, whereas the UK has a level of 7.1. Even Iran (2.3), or China (3.6), has less corruption!!!

[Hub]

Russian or not, LDV vans are completely terrible - and they have probably been doomed because of that!

[fido]

beanbag said:

Don't forget that Russia is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. On a scale of 0 to 10 (with the latter being least corrupt), Russia has a corruption level of 2.1, whereas the UK has a level of 7.1. Even Iran (2.3), or China (3.6), has less corruption!!!

+10. Even the ruskies i've worked with don't disagree with this assertion - of course in the good times we could joke about this sh8t.

[TehMonkey]

Since we don't like the Ruskies at the moment anyway, why not freeze the companies assets and nationalise LDV with no compensation to the parent firm - and disguise it as another sanction due to the Litvenyeko rubbish. Then see if its salvagable or not.

[beanbag]

TehMonkey said:

Since we don't like the Ruskies at the moment anyway, why not freeze the companies assets and nationalise LDV with no compensation to the parent firm - and disguise it as another sanction due to the Litvenyeko rubbish. Then see if its salvagable or not.

I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate in doing just that to us if it were the other way around.....

[TehMonkey]

LDV is a small drop in the ocean really, aslong as we get our gas we'll be alreet

[sadoksevoli]

This is NOT the whole story - before it got bought out by a Russian crook, LDV was part of a US-led consortium that was bidding to build the British Army's new truck - but at the time Tony Bliar (remember him?) was on a "let's be good Europeans" drive and the MOD selected an inferior truck from MAN in Austria with zero jobs for zero British workers - the rival bid would have kept in LDV in profit for years. So there you have it - Labour up to their armpits in the ordure of their own making.

[sparkythecat]

I heard an LDV company spokesman being interviewed yesterday.
When pressed, he admitted that the company has not made any profit in 4 years.

If they can't make money in good times, what's the point of propping them up ?

[cardigankid]

heebeegeetee said:

beanbag said:

Why should our government even grant them a loan?

Surely the Russian government should be responsible for this?

If the factory closes, the government aka the taxpayer is going to pay, whether we like it or not.

OK then, buy tha assets after it goes bust at a knockdown price and offer it to the MBO team then. This business of propping up businesses willy nilly was never a good idea.

[cardigankid]

sadoksevoli said:

This is NOT the whole story - before it got bought out by a Russian crook, LDV was part of a US-led consortium that was bidding to build the British Army's new truck - but at the time Tony Bliar (remember him?) was on a "let's be good Europeans" drive and the MOD selected an inferior truck from MAN in Austria with zero jobs for zero British workers - the rival bid would have kept in LDV in profit for years. So there you have it - Labour up to their armpits in the ordure of their own making.

I knew that there would be something like this in it. They should disband the MOD and just keep the armed services, and let a committee of Commanding Officers chaired by a Law Lord select Army equipment, not politicians or civil servants like as not up to their eyeballs in entertainment. Give them a rifle and invite them to get in the trenches or blast off. The only thing that, as a Kraut, I suspect here is the proposition that the MAN product (Motorenwerke Augsburg-Nurnberg) was inferior to the LDV product which one of our colleagues has just described as dross. Is it possible that the MAN product was actually better?

[ATG]

Just to reiterate the point - the govt has said there's no basis for providing bridging finance for the mgmt buy out, so what are people complaining about?

[sadoksevoli]

cardigankid said:

sadoksevoli said:

This is NOT the whole story - before it got bought out by a Russian crook, LDV was part of a US-led consortium that was bidding to build the British Army's new truck - but at the time Tony Bliar (remember him?) was on a "let's be good Europeans" drive and the MOD selected an inferior truck from MAN in Austria with zero jobs for zero British workers - the rival bid would have kept in LDV in profit for years. So there you have it - Labour up to their armpits in the ordure of their own making.

I knew that there would be something like this in it. They should disband the MOD and just keep the armed services, and let a committee of Commanding Officers chaired by a Law Lord select Army equipment, not politicians or civil servants like as not up to their eyeballs in entertainment. Give them a rifle and invite them to get in the trenches or blast off. The only thing that, as a Kraut, I suspect here is the proposition that the MAN product (Motorenwerke Augsburg-Nurnberg) was inferior to the LDV product which one of our colleagues has just described as dross. Is it possible that the MAN product was actually better?

I think the MAN truck is not as suitable for the wars we happen to be fighting now - the Stewart & Stevenson vehicle which would have saved jobs at LDV would, apparently have been better for any uparmouring to counter IEDs, especially as the USA is actually fighting in Afghanistan for example, gaining the know-how on what works and what doesn't, as opposed to the Germans who have a token presence (a few recce tornadoes, not allowed ot fly at night). Anyway, all moot now, and this whole thing a tiny distraction from the general melee which should focus on what an utter mess Labour have made of just about everything.

[Nadyenka]

beanbag said:

Vanya said:

Nadyenka said:

beanbag said:

funding the Russian bh wife.


For this reason I have a lot of contempt for them in general. Perhaps this is a sweeping statement to make but I accept there is the exception to this rule and there are a lot of good Russian business persons out there. I've just yet to meet them.

It is stupid statement

I completely agree Nadyenka, quite offensive... no wait... very offensive.

Oh well. No apologies for this. Even my Russian friends wholeheartedly agree....

I do not think Russian friends that you have would agree and let you insult their wifes and daughters and friends.this is what make me angry.I do not care about how you think of Business person.

Edited by Nadyenka on Wednesday 25th February 02:46

[speedy_thrills]

bitwrx said:

Govt lend them £30mil. They can then afford to pay their 6000 workers say £20,000 each. Direct and indirect taxes mean that 60% of this goes straight back to the govt. 40% gets spent in the local economy by the employees, 60% of which goes straight back to the govt in taxes.

So, 6000*20000 = £120mil, govt gets 72mil back
The other 48mil supports 48/20000 = 2400 jobs with another £28.8mil going back to the govt in tax.
The 2400 then spend 40% of their income, thereby supporting another 575 or so jobs. The govt gets a little more tax, and some other jobs are supported. This goes on for a while.

Then after the thieving foreign bds sell a few more vans, they pay back the £30mil plus interest.

So assuming it all goes right, the govt are on to a winner.

They obviously didn't agree with the numbers I just made up off the top of my head.

But that is the principal - save jobs. It is a Labour government after all.

It's a good idea but I beg that you consider the bigger picture.

There are thousands of companies suffering and loan or no loan the wider economy is still suffering.

While I support government spending should it not be spending on assets that will provide long-term economic advantages? Roads, energy, schools, university fees etc. There is no point in having a company to make vans without a market for vans, that is a fact I think we can all agree on .

[cardigankid]

Giving the employees £20k each would be a step in the right direction, but I am sure that isn't what they were going to do with the money.

[cardigankid]

Nadyenka said:

beanbag said:

Vanya said:

Nadyenka said:

beanbag said:

funding the Russian bh wife.


For this reason I have a lot of contempt for them in general. Perhaps this is a sweeping statement to make but I accept there is the exception to this rule and there are a lot of good Russian business persons out there. I've just yet to meet them.

It is stupid statement

I completely agree Nadyenka, quite offensive... no wait... very offensive.

Oh well. No apologies for this. Even my Russian friends wholeheartedly agree....

I do not think Russian friends that you have would agree and let you insult their wifes and daughters and friends.this is what make me angry.I do not care about how you think of Business person.

Edited by Nadyenka on Wednesday 25th February 02:46

You're not for real, surely?

Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 25th February 18:37