8 british troops dead in 24 hours
Discussion
loltolhurst said:
i was defending the chap that says if we werent there we'd be less of a target which is true. our country would be safer if we had not been involved in afgan/iraq in the same way noone bombs switzerland, iceland etc as they do not get involved.
In a way I think you are right, however, in my opinion (and many others) your sentence that we are safer if we withdrew should be qualified with "for now", "our country would be safer ...... for now".The Islamic fundamentalists are primarily concerned with spreading their version of Islam across the world. That is their stated goal. And there are many countries keeping their foot on the head of the fundamentalists. Morocco is a good example of a country that isn't trying to break its Islamic background, but it is keeping its head on the nutters that want a totally Islamic state. Living in the stone age may suit some, but its not exactly a decent lifestyle. Its somewhat lacking.
The whole thing with Afghanistan and Iraq is about removing fundamentalists from power and keeping them out of power. You only need to see Iran to see why Iraq should become secular again.
Freedoms are hard won and easily lost. Our involvement is allowing that freedom to remain just a bit longer.
tinman0 said:
loltolhurst said:
i was defending the chap that says if we werent there we'd be less of a target which is true. our country would be safer if we had not been involved in afgan/iraq in the same way noone bombs switzerland, iceland etc as they do not get involved.
In a way I think you are right, however, in my opinion (and many others) your sentence that we are safer if we withdrew should be qualified with "for now", "our country would be safer ...... for now".The Islamic fundamentalists are primarily concerned with spreading their version of Islam across the world. That is their stated goal. And there are many countries keeping their foot on the head of the fundamentalists. Morocco is a good example of a country that isn't trying to break its Islamic background, but it is keeping its head on the nutters that want a totally Islamic state. Living in the stone age may suit some, but its not exactly a decent lifestyle. Its somewhat lacking.
The whole thing with Afghanistan and Iraq is about removing fundamentalists from power and keeping them out of power. You only need to see Iran to see why Iraq should become secular again.
Freedoms are hard won and easily lost. Our involvement is allowing that freedom to remain just a bit longer.
loltolhurst said:
surely if we were serious about it then we should be invading saudi ararbia which is, in my limited knowledge, the source of most funding for islamic terrorists?
Kinda agree. Trouble is that Saudi Arabia holds too much power over the west so thats not going to happen.Part of my personal conspiracy theory about Iraq is this. There were loads of reasons "we" invaded, and oil was one of them. Stated goal from the outset in fact although everyone pretends that they somehow guessed GWB's intentions - after he published his reasons and oil was number 7.
However, the oil was not just about ensuring oil supplies to the US (the US gets plenty of oil from Saudi Arabia already), but about punishing Saudi Arabia for 9/11.
The biggest loser when Iraqi oil fields (2nd largest in the world) start pumping is Saudi Arabia. What better way to bloody Saudi Arabia's nose than to get its neighboring country pumping oil? All of a sudden, Saudi Arabia's power over the US and West is reduced substantially. Saudi will have to start dealing with the Chinese and thats a different ball game for them. That will be GWB legacy in many many years to come.
Anyway, thats my strange little conspiracy. You don't have to agree and probably won't.
tinman0 said:
loltolhurst said:
surely if we were serious about it then we should be invading saudi ararbia which is, in my limited knowledge, the source of most funding for islamic terrorists?
Kinda agree. Trouble is that Saudi Arabia holds too much power over the west so thats not going to happen.Part of my personal conspiracy theory about Iraq is this. There were loads of reasons "we" invaded, and oil was one of them. Stated goal from the outset in fact although everyone pretends that they somehow guessed GWB's intentions - after he published his reasons and oil was number 7.
However, the oil was not just about ensuring oil supplies to the US (the US gets plenty of oil from Saudi Arabia already), but about punishing Saudi Arabia for 9/11.
The biggest loser when Iraqi oil fields (2nd largest in the world) start pumping is Saudi Arabia. What better way to bloody Saudi Arabia's nose than to get its neighboring country pumping oil? All of a sudden, Saudi Arabia's power over the US and West is reduced substantially. Saudi will have to start dealing with the Chinese and thats a different ball game for them. That will be GWB legacy in many many years to come.
Anyway, thats my strange little conspiracy. You don't have to agree and probably won't.
Muntu said:
FourWheelDrift said:
If we had left them alone we would not be a target.
Maybe the next stop for the army should be Birmingham as that is where the 7/11 lot were from.
Time for non interventionist foreign policy and to reshape the UK military to soley protect UK boarders.
Fittster said:
Do you think if we slaughter enough Afghan farmers the world would be a safer place?
I sincerely doubt if that is the military objective in Afghanistan, as you implyFittster said:
Maybe the next stop for the army should be Birmingham as that is where the 7/11 lot were from.
Nice bit of hyperbole there. Some of the muslims in Birmingham probably do warrant a bit more attention than they were subject to prior to 7/7 thoughFittster said:
Time for non interventionist foreign policy and to reshape the UK military to soley protect UK boarders.
Yup, that will work wonders for our children and grandchildren.Muntu said:
Fittster said:
Do you think if we slaughter enough Afghan farmers the world would be a safer place?
I sincerely doubt if that is the military objective in Afghanistan, as you implyFittster said:
Maybe the next stop for the army should be Birmingham as that is where the 7/11 lot were from.
Nice bit of hyperbole there. Some of the muslims in Birmingham probably do warrant a bit more attention than they were subject to prior to 7/7 thoughFittster said:
Time for non interventionist foreign policy and to reshape the UK military to soley protect UK boarders.
Yup, that will work wonders for our children and grandchildren.It will do wonders for children and grandchildren and won't be a bad idea for us. Huge costs saving if we stop trying to pretend we are a superpower. Let the new boys at the top table see if they have better luck, China seems to have a better approach to Africa than the west ever has.
F*ck Brown and Milliband. This is the most futile war and waste of life the British Army has fought since. well, the last Afghan war 0f 1878. The biggest Army in the world couldn't subdue the Mujehadon. Why anyone thinks pipsqueak outfit like the British Army (not the brave squaddies, the MoD) had a hope in hell of succeeding is beyond belief.
Put Brown and Milliband in uniform and give them each an SA80 with 30 rounds and put them in the front line. They'll piss their pants inside of 30 seconds
It's a pity they didn't read Kipling:
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier _of_ the Queen!
Put Brown and Milliband in uniform and give them each an SA80 with 30 rounds and put them in the front line. They'll piss their pants inside of 30 seconds
It's a pity they didn't read Kipling:
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier _of_ the Queen!
Edited by audidoody on Saturday 11th July 18:11
Fittster said:
And what is the militray objective in Afghanistan? We have been in and out of the place since the 1830s by now you'd have thought we would have come to some form of conculsion.
Believe it or not, the objectives have not remained constant over the 180 odd years since the 1830's. Things changeFittster said:
It will do wonders for children and grandchildren and won't be a bad idea for us. Huge costs saving if we stop trying to pretend we are a superpower. Let the new boys at the top table see if they have better luck, China seems to have a better approach to Africa than the west ever has.
China's approach to Africa is more akin to a Hurricane Katrina style looting. Africa would be best served by a recolonisation by the west, IMO.funkyrobot said:
you gave your life
t
t Milliband said:
t Milliband said: British troops giving lives
Why do people keep saying this? FFS! They are not giving their lives. Their lives are being taken from them by a bunch of cowards sitting in comfy offices in Whitehall.
ETA: I'd seriously question whether any of them are fighting for this country either. They might well be fighting for their mates and willing to die to protect them but I do wish that people wouldn't keep claiming that they are doing it for us. They're not!
Edited by Strangely Brown on Saturday 11th July 18:26
Fittster said:
Muntu said:
FourWheelDrift said:
If we had left them alone we would not be a target.
Can't see it would do any harm.
Maybe the next stop for the army should be Birmingham as that is where the 7/11 lot were from.
I'm with you there.
Time for non interventionist foreign policy and to reshape the UK military to soley protect UK boarders.
And to get Blair up on treason charges.
Strangely Brown said:
FFS! They are not giving their lives. Their lives are being taken from them by a bunch of cowards sitting in comfy offices in Whitehall.
No, the people in Whitehall go nowhere near a battlefield, the soldiers' lives are actually being taken by a bunch of allah ackbar screaming nutters. Muntu said:
Strangely Brown said:
FFS! They are not giving their lives. Their lives are being taken from them by a bunch of cowards sitting in comfy offices in Whitehall.
No, the people in Whitehall go nowhere near a battlefield, the soldiers' lives are actually being taken by a bunch of allah ackbar screaming nutters. s in whitehall. As for the allah ackbar nutters... it's their country. Leave them to kill themselves.Edited by Strangely Brown on Saturday 11th July 18:27
Strangely Brown said:
And they wouldn't be there if it were not for the s in whitehall.
Indeed, but they would not be dead if it was not for the allah ackbar nutters though.s in whitehall. Strangely Brown said:
As for the allah ackbar nutters... it's their country. Leave them to kill themselves.
I think the issue is somewhat wider than some internal tribal feuding in Afghanistan...Muntu said:
Strangely Brown said:
And they wouldn't be there if it were not for the s in whitehall.
Indeed, but they would not be dead if it was not for the allah ackbar nutters though.s in whitehall. Muntu said:
Strangely Brown said:
As for the allah ackbar nutters... it's their country. Leave them to kill themselves.
I think the issue is somewhat wider than some internal tribal feuding in Afghanistan...Edited by Strangely Brown on Saturday 11th July 19:08
Strangely Brown said:
Muntu said:
Strangely Brown said:
And they wouldn't be there if it were not for the s in whitehall.
Indeed, but they would not be dead if it was not for the allah ackbar nutters though.s in whitehall. Strangely Brown said:
Indeed. Like pretty much every conflict in history, it's down to religion: one groups interpretation of a book and trying to force it upon others. That's all it is and it is pointless to keep pretending that it is anything else.
Yup, the world would be a much better place without the ultra-violent primitive religious strains that seem prevalent these daysMuntu said:
Fittster said:
And what is the militray objective in Afghanistan? We have been in and out of the place since the 1830s by now you'd have thought we would have come to some form of conculsion.
Believe it or not, the objectives have not remained constant over the 180 odd years since the 1830's. Things changeMuntu said:
Fittster said:
It will do wonders for children and grandchildren and won't be a bad idea for us. Huge costs saving if we stop trying to pretend we are a superpower. Let the new boys at the top table see if they have better luck, China seems to have a better approach to Africa than the west ever has.
China's approach to Africa is more akin to a Hurricane Katrina style looting. Africa would be best served by a recolonisation by the west, IMO.Muntu said:
Strangely Brown said:
FFS! They are not giving their lives. Their lives are being taken from them by a bunch of cowards sitting in comfy offices in Whitehall.
No, the people in Whitehall go nowhere near a battlefield, the soldiers' lives are actually being taken by a bunch of allah ackbar screaming nutters. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff