EU spending up and they're taking more from us
Discussion
toast boy said:
What exactly do we get in return for all this cash we're giving them?
Well, a few thousand roads we don't use, some dance groups, better treatment of dogs in Hungary, expression through dance training for some Africans, 2000 EU civil servants paid £185k a year with 3 months off on full pay, 1200 unelected eu officials on over £140k an average pension of £60k per year for retired Eurocrats. What more could you possibly want from our £10,000,000,000 per year contribution?
Isn't it a similar case for the united STates of America? Don't they all contribute to central govt.
In fact look closer to home we all pay council tax and each area get a central govt payment - some areas a lot more than others. Also what about mr x in hebredies who's a higher tax rate payer and never leaves the island think of all he pays for yet has zero benefit from.
Now clearly noone through choice lives in an area of low jobs etc however some of those areas have other benefits ie stunning countryside.
In fact look closer to home we all pay council tax and each area get a central govt payment - some areas a lot more than others. Also what about mr x in hebredies who's a higher tax rate payer and never leaves the island think of all he pays for yet has zero benefit from.
Now clearly noone through choice lives in an area of low jobs etc however some of those areas have other benefits ie stunning countryside.
There was an economy study which found that EU membership was simply not worth the money. Leaving the EU would certainly be a big blow to the UK economy, but the money saved would be enormous.
The UK should leave and negotiate some form of 'partnership' with the EU instead. Norway and Switzerland do this, though Norway pays very large sums to the EU. We would need to do it on the cheap. We would need access to their markets without tariffs and vice-versa. France would want to screw Britain over but we would cut some sort of deal, especially as we buy so many cars from Germany
Fact is Britain has never had the courage to stand on its own when it comes to Europe. There is a complete lack of political vision. We could be like a Singapore in the North Sea, but we've ended up being chained to an emerging monster.
The UK should leave and negotiate some form of 'partnership' with the EU instead. Norway and Switzerland do this, though Norway pays very large sums to the EU. We would need to do it on the cheap. We would need access to their markets without tariffs and vice-versa. France would want to screw Britain over but we would cut some sort of deal, especially as we buy so many cars from Germany
Fact is Britain has never had the courage to stand on its own when it comes to Europe. There is a complete lack of political vision. We could be like a Singapore in the North Sea, but we've ended up being chained to an emerging monster.
NismoGT said:
Trommel said:
Brown ratified the treaty, it was already law. Referendum therefore pointless.
Can the law not be reversed?Instead of our cast iron referendum on something important we just get a stupid one on AV, just to rub our faces in it.
smashing said:
I know this is a loaded question but what are the actual benefits of being in the EU and would we be able to prosper without being a member?
Excellent question.When we joined the EEC, there were very high rates of import duty. Many items attracted rates of 10%. That meant that we had to be 10% cheaper than our European counterparts if we were to be able to export to Europe.
Nowadays, the situation is very different. The World Trade Organisaton (WTO) has reduced most import duties to less than 4%. We import loads of stuff from Taiwan at 0%. We can sell this stuff to Europe at 0% whether we are in the EU, or not.
As a business owner, I can tell you that membership of the EU is costing more than the benefits.
Don
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Mojocvh said:
toast boy said:
What exactly do we get in return for all this cash we're giving them?
just read up on what the sons been up too....
That taught whistle blowing EU chief accountants to know their place!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-171052/Kin...
The whole thing is a huge gravytrain for people who otherwise might be unemployed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMtc_QJ4-E
I don't buy the "we need to be in the EU to be competitive" argument. If we make decent windows, for example, other countries will still want to buy those windows from us. It's irrelevant whether or not we're part of some huge bureaucracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMtc_QJ4-E
I don't buy the "we need to be in the EU to be competitive" argument. If we make decent windows, for example, other countries will still want to buy those windows from us. It's irrelevant whether or not we're part of some huge bureaucracy.
Parrot of Doom said:
The whole thing is a huge gravytrain for people who otherwise might be unemployed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMtc_QJ4-E
I don't buy the "we need to be in the EU to be competitive" argument. If we make decent windows, for example, other countries will still want to buy those windows from us. It's irrelevant whether or not we're part of some huge bureaucracy.
Although, if you think back each mainland country was very protectionist using subsidies and taxes to ensure their people bought their products. One good thing from the EU has been to open up trade agreements and trade equality.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMtc_QJ4-E
I don't buy the "we need to be in the EU to be competitive" argument. If we make decent windows, for example, other countries will still want to buy those windows from us. It's irrelevant whether or not we're part of some huge bureaucracy.
DonkeyApple said:
The EU is an essential fallback for any MP who fails to get a lucrative set of directorships or consultancies after being thrown out for being useless.
Here's a teaser for you.Big companies are run by highly paid corporate heroes who are much brighter and sharper than your run-of-the-mill human being.
So why is it they can't resist appointing "useless former MPs" to lucrative directorships and consultancies?
The only explanations I can think of are,
a) They're actually rather stupid, or
b) They're simply corrupt.
DonkeyApple said:
Although, if you think back each mainland country was very protectionist using subsidies and taxes to ensure their people bought their products. One good thing from the EU has been to open up trade agreements and trade equality.
Not necessarily. Another country will simply impose import tariffs in order to make their windows much more attractive on price. Most people buy on price, especially if there is a large differential (which is the effect of import tariffs/duties). That's why the EU for example, put import tariffs on many Chinese goods, especially shoes:http://www.brc.org.uk/brc_news_detail.asp?id=1873
DonkeyApple said:
Although, if you think back each mainland country was very protectionist using subsidies and taxes to ensure their people bought their products. One good thing from the EU has been to open up trade agreements and trade equality.
No, the World Trade Organisation has done that, the EU is now effectively useless for that purpose.Additionally, try driving/ferrying from France to England with a van full of wine, then you'll find out how 'free' trade is withing the EU.
swamp said:
We could be like a Singapore in the North Sea.
I too was thinking this a couple of days ago.Then, coming to my "senses" and realising no UK politician would ever have the nous or balls.
Ok, I appreciate there might be an argument with the political system there, however, I've been impressed with how the majority of the citizens believe in the benefits of hard work and promoting their country.
Singapore is a city state that doesnt have anywhere near the problems the UK does. I'm not sure if the UK could operate the same tax regime as an example - there is too much infrastructure in the UK to pay for (I'd the road network per capita is much greater).
However, what Singapore has benefitted from has been a political vision that has stayed pretty consistent since the 60's. Yes, it's only ever had one party in power but they've done a good job in turning the country into an economic power. What does make me laugh about PH is that some posters believe that it means handouts for everyone. Wrong.
I was watching the news last night about DC trying to cut DLA to drug addicts, alcoholics and fatties. Guess how much state help the evil socialist government in Singapore gives you if you can't work? A. f
k all. What do you get in the UK? Prescription drugs and a roof over your head.
What I have learned from my travels around the world, is that if you create that safety net for people, they will abuse it. Take it away, and people won't risk it in the first place.
However, what Singapore has benefitted from has been a political vision that has stayed pretty consistent since the 60's. Yes, it's only ever had one party in power but they've done a good job in turning the country into an economic power. What does make me laugh about PH is that some posters believe that it means handouts for everyone. Wrong.
I was watching the news last night about DC trying to cut DLA to drug addicts, alcoholics and fatties. Guess how much state help the evil socialist government in Singapore gives you if you can't work? A. f
k all. What do you get in the UK? Prescription drugs and a roof over your head. What I have learned from my travels around the world, is that if you create that safety net for people, they will abuse it. Take it away, and people won't risk it in the first place.
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