Emigration

[Eric Mc]

fido said:

Derek Smith said:

If you buy a fire extinguisher are you irritated at the end of its 4-year lifespan to find you haven't used it?

I think the analogy in the UK would be finding that someone else has used your fire extinguisher because they have been too lazy to buy their own.

Would you stop your neighbour from using your fire extinguisher if his house was on fire?

[Derek Smith]

chris watton said:

Derek Smith said:

There is a common fallacy that you are paying into a fund when you pay your NI and taxes but you are not.

But we were taught/told that paying our NI was paying into a fund to help us when we got ill, temporarily out of work and for a small pension when we retire. We were told this many times when at school age.

I could be wrong, but your party of preference spent all of our money and the old set up had to be thrown out of the window (And brown made my private pension next to worthless) - it seems we are paying NI now to help fund the feckless and bloated public sector - and still that's not even close to enough, hence the massive borrowing to top up the private sector tax receipts!

I'm not sure I was ever taught/told there was a fund.

As an ex memeber of the feckless in the bloated public sector I would like to point out that I paid 12%+ in real terms (now more I believe) into my pension. No fund. The idea was that my contributions paid for those already retired. This worked fine whilst the state showed that 50% of retired officer died between 3 and 7 years after retirment. Up until the late 90s the system made a 'profit'. In the early years contributions were more than double the expenditure.

So just like NI. There is, never was, a fund. Give politicians access to money and they will spend it. So concentrate on the 'Insurance' part of NI. It makes it clearer.

[Chilli]

Derek, I belittle England all the time. I hate the abuse of the welfare system, The crime, the politicians, the tax, the workshy, the immigration policy, the foreign aid that's given, I could go on. BUT, rather than sitq around and moan about it, I left. Why do you have a problem with me? Am I not allowed to makes choices and have an opinion based on my personal experiences? I chose a better life, a better standard of living that "my" country couldn't give me.

[fido]

Eric Mc said:

Would you stop your neighbour from using your fire extinguisher if his house was on fire?

No, but it would irritate me immensely if he kept on borrowing it without any intention to pay for one himself. I'd be livid if i found out he had actually started the fire in order to get re-housed into a bigger home for his harem of feral offspring. {Keep going - i'm linking this analogy}

[Derek Smith]

Chilli said:

Derek, I belittle England all the time. I hate the abuse of the welfare system, The crime, the politicians, the tax, the workshy, the immigration policy, the foreign aid that's given, I could go on. BUT, rather than sitq around and moan about it, I left. Why do you have a problem with me? Am I not allowed to makes choices and have an opinion based on my personal experiences? I chose a better life, a better standard of living that "my" country couldn't give me.

I see you came from Essex.

If you read my posts I have no problem with you leaving. You can make such choices, one of the benefits of living in this country, without any critism from me.

As regards my irritation with people belittling my country:

Perhaps it's my upbringing. My family could have run back to Eire when the war started. I lived in an area of London where there was a fair number of immigrant families, many of them Irish. I'm not sure why my grandmother decided against it, she was not very communicative, but she stayed as saw out the war. She never fratenised with those who returned once the war was over.

Maybe it is because I was taught that a country does not 'give' benefits, you have to earn them.

Or, of course, when I see Britain I see a country that gave the world the industrial revolution, football, bridges, railways, and proper curry. Maybe I see a country where my family, despite being Irish, were treated as equals in the main. I've only once experienced any racial behaviour against me and then it was almost funny.

I knew a woman who came to this country in the 30s, a refugee from the pogram, when other countries around the world restricted, or in in the case of one civilised commonwealth country blocked, immigration of Jews. This country had in reality no ceiling.

I see a country that has problems. But then there are problems in every other god's own country. There are some which have major problems.

This country suits me.

Are you bothered that I have a problem with those who perpentually belittle my country? You've chosen something else. Why do you feel the need to belittle a country 'all the time'? Does it make you feel better? I would have thought that if you were happy in your choice you would feel no need to justify it? Certainly my Irish relatives never had a go at Ireland despite its manifest problems. In fact my grandmother was tortured in a workhouse in Co Cork but she was just pleased that her country of choice accepted her and her family.

[DJRC]

Eric Mc said:

Bingo1976 said:

Eric Mc said:

That is not the scenario I was talking about.

I was talking about people who live the bulk of their working lives abroad and THEN return home to subsist off the state or make their health claims or become reliant on health services without EVER having made a meaningful contribution to the nation of which they are going to be dependent.

And I agree. However, if I choose to live somewhere that gives me a better lifestyle for my needs, and allows me to make financial arrangements so that I can fund my retirement without being a burden, then what is the issue?

Eric Mc said:

Well said.

The plusses here outweigh the minuses - by a long shot - in my view.

And for others they don't. I doubt you or Derek would be cut out for life in Asia, sameway as I prefer it out here to the UK - we're just different.

No problem with that approach at all. But that is not how you were describing the behaviour of some others. Falling back on the "old country" in times of need when you have made no meaningful contribution tio that country during your working life is just not right.

Right for and what to whom? Right is what provides best for you and yours. Its not *right* to the Swiss that I waltz in, rape their country for the higher wages, lower taxes and then export most of that money back to the UK, as the goods I want are vastly cheaper here. But it is *right* for the UK as it is the UK that benefits. It is right for me and mine aswell, as it is better fnancially for us.

Any moral debate ends there. Once you realise that the whole world is your work place then you very quickly realise that loyalty to any one country goes out of the window.

[Chilli]

Derek,
What's the relevance to coming from Essex?
Whilst I'm sure the life of your Grandmother is very interesting, I still dont get the justification for you have a problem with my opinion, or the fact that I am happy to tell others why I doubt I'll live in England again, and what I don't like about the country. The fact that a country accepted you is lovely, of course, but should that be reason enough to value others' opinion?

[TheHeretic]

Particularly as it is your country of birth.

[Derek Smith]

Chilli said:

Derek,
What's the relevance to coming from Essex?
Whilst I'm sure the life of your Grandmother is very interesting, I still dont get the justification for you have a problem with my opinion, or the fact that I am happy to tell others why I doubt I'll live in England again, and what I don't like about the country. The fact that a country accepted you is lovely, of course, but should that be reason enough to value others' opinion?

Have you never been to Essex?

I'll repeat: the only problem I have is with those who would be little my country.

You can tell whomever you wish that you have no wish to return to this country without the risk of offending me. I do not have a problem with your opinion. It's a free country, or at least this one is, and opinions are the last things I would try to dictate. Finally, I don't think I need a reason to be irritated by people who belittle my country.

I think this part of the emigration thread has run its course.

[Countdown]

DJRC said:

Right for and what to whom? Right is what provides best for you and yours. Its not *right* to the Swiss that I waltz in, rape their country for the higher wages, lower taxes and then export most of that money back to the UK, as the goods I want are vastly cheaper here. But it is *right* for the UK as it is the UK that benefits. It is right for me and mine aswell, as it is better fnancially for us.
.

Exactly the same logic as applied by every economic migrant and by those who abuse the benefits system.

ETA - how does the UK benefit from you importing goods into the Country?

Edited by Countdown on Friday 6th July 12:28

[Mermaid]

Countdown said:

Exactly the same logic as applied by every economic migrant and by those who abuse the benefits system.

ETA - how does the UK benefit from you importing goods into the Country?

I read that as goods he buys are cheaper are, he imports the money.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

should you return you can't claim that you've already paid sufficient for another few years. The money has gone.

i get your point, but im not claiming ive paid sufficient for the next few years, im claiming i, like many emmigrants, paid sufficient for life.

the tax take is 150bn, NI take is 100bn, there are 38m of working age. so on average a uk 'worker' pays under 7000 a year tax. if you've paid over 310k in tax you've paid more than average for a lifetime of work 18-65. i'll wager many ex-pat brits have paid this, and more, indeed thats a reason many leave! in addition the uk get the money up front, we'll use next to no services in the 20 years we're gone and if you're lucky we'll die before we come back!

[Chilli]

Derek Smith said:

Have you never been to Essex?

I'll repeat: the only problem I have is with those who would be little my country.

You can tell whomever you wish that you have no wish to return to this country without the risk of offending me. I do not have a problem with your opinion. It's a free country, or at least this one is, and opinions are the last things I would try to dictate. Finally, I don't think I need a reason to be irritated by people who belittle my country.

I think this part of the emigration thread has run its course.

You've established that I come from Essex, then you ask me if I've ever been to Essex. You're right, this has run it's course

[DJRC]

Mermaid said:

Countdown said:

Exactly the same logic as applied by every economic migrant and by those who abuse the benefits system.

ETA - how does the UK benefit from you importing goods into the Country?

I read that as goods he buys are cheaper are, he imports the money.

Correct. I pour my money into the UK. The UK benefits considerably more from me working in Switzerland than Switzerland does. As the old saying goes, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, but unlike Countown I am not foolish enough to interject any kind of moral relevance into the situation. Its simply is what it is.

[King Herald]

I left the UK to live in the Philippines, 2.5 years ago. Not because I dislike the UK, just fancied a change.

I've left before, so it was no great shock, and I haven't actually paid income tax in the UK since 1989, but that is not me shystering, it is the UK tax law: I fill in my tax returns and pay what they ask of me.

Unlike many people who ignorantly moan and carp on about the UK, I have actually lived, worked and travelled in many countries of the world. And despite all the negative crapola the UK news media thrust down your throats, the UK is not really a bad place to live. In fact there are very few better places.

[v15ben]

I've got to agree with what others have said. I didn't leave the UK because I hate the place, just fancied seeing more of the world in my short time on earth and thought that working/living in a place would allow me to do more of that than just going on holiday.

I too pay my taxes as prescribed by the tax authorities of the countries I live in. I currently pay 4% which I'm sure would make certain posters on this thread cry as it certainly doesn't count as a "fair chunk" I'm sure.

[Countdown]

DJRC said:

Correct. I pour my money into the UK. The UK benefits considerably more from me working in Switzerland than Switzerland does. As the old saying goes, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, but unlike Countown I am not foolish enough to interject any kind of moral relevance into the situation. Its simply is what it is.

Based on what you've said, I don't think you would care less whether or not the UK benefitted from you working abroad. It's purely ancillary. With regards to moral relevance - just because you think it's irrelevant, doesn't mean that the rest of us should. I would rather live in a moral society than one which lives by the creed "I'm alright Jack , and fk the rest"

[bosshog]

King Herald said:

I left the UK to live in the Philippines, 2.5 years ago. Not because I dislike the UK, just fancied a change.

I've left before, so it was no great shock, and I haven't actually paid income tax in the UK since 1989, but that is not me shystering, it is the UK tax law: I fill in my tax returns and pay what they ask of me.

Unlike many people who ignorantly moan and carp on about the UK, I have actually lived, worked and travelled in many countries of the world. And despite all the negative crapola the UK news media thrust down your throats, the UK is not really a bad place to live. In fact there are very few better places.

I'm similar (ish) that I have spent around 16 years of my adult life living abroad (now 40) and I totally agree. Every place has negatives and positives. I would say on the whole the Uk is a great place to live aside from the crappy weather.

I shall be moving back in the next year or 2 (from Australia) to settle down (somewhat!).

And those who keep harping on about 'rip off Britain' - stop it - the Uk is great value for money.

Edited by bosshog on Monday 9th July 07:20

[King Herald]

bosshog said:

And those who keep harping on about 'rip off Britain' - stop it - the Uk is great value for money.

Where we live now has the second most expensive electricity in the world! For a flea bitten basket case of a third world country, how can they justify that? We pay 60-70 quid a month, and we only have lights, fans and the occasional few hours a week with a single small air-con.

Food bill is the same, or more, for a full trolley of groceries. We buy mainly imported stuff just to get decent quality.

Petrol is about 70p a litre.

Our house maid costs us 60 quid a month, for six days a week.

[shirt]

King Herald said:

Where we live now has the second most expensive electricity in the world! For a flea bitten basket case of a third world country, how can they justify that?

it's the cost of all the backhanders and scams that go on with energy in that part of the world! also powergen tends to be fuel fired [diesel, HFO] which is only going in one direction cost wise.