What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.

[TTwiggy]

Breadvan72 said:

It should go without saying that the man himself is an utter charlatan, and probably one of the most dishonest professional politicians active in the UK today, but, like the good Carnival huckster that he is, he is practised in the art of fooling those who are willing to be fooled.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Wednesday 9th April 10:18

I have a friend who used to work with him in the City. He wouldn't pass water over him if he were on fire. When NF's plane crashed he was putting the Champagne on ice, and was very upset when the Nige emerged from the wreckage unscathed.

Uncharitable maybe, but my friend is a laid back, liberal type by nature (despite what he did for a living) so I can only assume there's something about Farage that brings out the worst in him!

[anonymous-user]

The full script is here - uncannily like the real thing. The Election report begins after the heading "At the Election Polls" (and the missing word is Metternich, as any fule kno).

http://allblackadderscripts.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12...

Here's E Blackadder offering a very fine philosophy for life:


"...fat tory landowners who get made MPs when they reach a certain weight; raving revolutionaries who think that just because they do a day's work that somehow gives them the right to get paid... Basically, it's a right old mess. Toffs at the top, plebs at the bottom, and me in the middle making a fat pile of cash out of both of them."

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 9th April 10:32

[TTwiggy]

Breadvan72 said:

TTwiggy said:

I hear the voter for Dunny-on-the-Wold is very interested in Mr Farage's politics.

As long as he doesn't accidentally, brutally hack his own head off while shaving, Ukip may be a shoo-in there.

"Three rather mangy cows, a Dachshund named Colin and a small hen in its late forties..."

Genius stuff. It even makes me laugh just seeing it written out on a motoring forum (apparently there's a motoring section to this forum - who'da thunk it?)

[TTwiggy]

Breadvan72 said:

The full script is here - uncannily like the real thing. The Election report begins after the heading "At the Election Polls" (and the missing word is Metternich, as any fule kno).

http://allblackadderscripts.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12...

Thanks! Much hilarity will now ensue...

[otolith]

FredClogs said:

otolith said:

FredClogs said:

The problem with democracy is that for every business owner you have 100 hardworking families who provide the labour to enrich the bourgeois. You need to sell the dream to the masses.

Sorry to allow reality to impinge upon the confines of your padded cell, but the average UK business employs five people and over 99% of UK businesses employ fewer than 50 people. Even if you exclude from the analysis all the sole traders and businesses only employing the owners - which is the vast majority of UK businesses - 97% of businesses employ fewer than 50 people.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Less than 50 not fewer than 50 (pomposity can bite back)

The rest of your post is equally nonsense and nothing to do with what I wrote.

"for every business owner you have 100 hardworking families who provide the labour to enrich the bourgeois"

No, you don't, Matt. There are 4.9 million businesses in the UK. There aren't 490 million people in the UK, let alone 490 million families.

And it's "fewer", we are talking about numbers of people, not tonnes of bullst.

Your connection with reality gets ever more tenuous. You are going to end up wearing a big bushy beard, carrying a placard and barking nonsense at passers by - if you don't already.

[otolith]

Ninja post deletion skills, Matt.

[Art0ir]

Breadvan72 said:

The appeal of Farage himself is quite specific. He speaks to the demographic that appears from NPE to be heavily represented in PH: the quite successful

Not particularly.

Breadvan72 said:

not very well informed

Inform me, almighty informer.

Breadvan72 said:

lower and middle middle class

Probably.

Breadvan72 said:

who feel themselves over taxed and unfairly neglected by the political elites of conventional right and left.

I guess.

Breadvan72 said:

They mostly aren't racist (a few are very ugly racists indeed)

I agree.

Breadvan72 said:

but a fair few of them may be just a tad xenophobic in a low key sort of way, or at least felt more comfortable before the World changed, not knowing enough history to realise that the World has always been changing and will never stop doing this.

Flat out wrong. I have no issue with immigration, only our stupid policy of open door to the EU, with excessively tough requirements on the rest of the world to compensate for that.

I would rather control immigration to skilled migrants and families from all over the world. I don't even care if the rate falls or rises - as long as they're a benefit to the economy.

Breadvan72 said:

It should go without saying that the man himself is an utter charlatan, and probably one of the most dishonest professional politicians active in the UK today, but, like the good Carnival huckster that he is, he is practised in the art of fooling those who are willing to be fooled.

Care to expand?

[Zod]

Breadvan72 said:

I am a middle aged hard working businessman, but I would rather rub donkey jizz in my hair than vote UKIP, so I must be missing something.

If you cannot see through Farage's act, then perhaps I can interest you in some magic beans.

But, but, this is what wonderful Nigel said only last month:

Nigel said:

Most of our voters are coming to us from Labour, some from the Lib Dems, and a lot are non-voters.

"Two thirds of our voters would never vote Conservative anyway.

It's a different story every month.

[FredClogs]

otolith said:

Ninja post deletion skills, Matt.

I have deleted no fewer than 1 post!

[otolith]

BV, having characterised UKIP as a vehicle for, as Blur put it, the dim Right Wing, where do you feel someone who shares the late Tony Benn's opinion of the EU ought to put his vote in order to have something done about it? As far as I can see, there is no other option for those who are unwilling to accept the continuation of the status quo.

(In the unlikely event that anyone doesn't know Benn's view, he summed it up here)

[AJS-]

Breadvan
If Farage is simply a cynical charlatan as you say then why would he go through 20 years of building up a brand new party rather than just joining Labour, Lib Dem or Tory where he would fit right in anyway, and probably have a crack at a decent job in government proper?

[10 Pence Short]

AJS- said:

Breadvan
If Farage is simply a cynical charlatan as you say then why would he go through 20 years of building up a brand new party rather than just joining Labour, Lib Dem or Tory where he would fit right in anyway, and probably have a crack at a decent job in government proper?

Perhaps because the easiest, fastest and most profitable way to monetise being a politician was the European Parliament. All he had to do was pretend he wants the EU disbanded, take advantage of the low turnouts and general apathy of the main party supporters in EU elections whilst mobilising those ill informed people who blame everything on Europe and, BINGO, you have all the expenses and free lunches you can shake a big blue stick at.

It really seems to me a big dollop of Emperor's new clothes.

Now we have apathy with our domestic parliament and politicians and look- what is Farage doing? Oh, exactly the same as he did with Europe.

[anonymous-user]

Why UKIP for Farage? That way, Farage gets to be a big fish in a small and fetid pond. He would vanish in the mainstream, being at best that eccentric and buffoonish Tory backbencher who can't even get onto Newsnight in August. He is the man who buttonholes you at a party or in the pub. A glib talker, with a terribly simple solution for everything, none of it practical or costed. He claims to have had a "real" job, and dines out on this forever. Er, he was a stockbroker - he helped people to move fictitious money around on screens, and that was a while back now. (In fact, all jobs are real jobs, in a sense, but you know what I mean).

Farage has been a career politician for the last fifteen years or so. He draws his pay and allowances as an MEP and does no work in the Europarliament (which indeed is a deeply flawed body, but some there at least try). He makes the occasional un-Statesmanlike ranty speech and he and his giggling minions and somewhat unpalatable "allies of convenience" (Lega Nord et al) engage in occasional acts of Fourth Form spoiling and wrecking. Farage repeatedly tells untruths, which he must know to be untruths, about issues such as the cost of EU membership and the volume of EU laws.

I think that the word charlatan fits him as well as any other politician and better than many

[AJS-]

10 Pence Short said:

Perhaps because the easiest, fastest and most profitable way to monetise being a politician was the European Parliament. All he had to do was pretend he wants the EU disbanded, take advantage of the low turnouts and general apathy of the main party supporters in EU elections whilst mobilising those ill informed people who blame everything on Europe and, BINGO, you have all the expenses and free lunches you can shake a big blue stick at.

It really seems to me a big dollop of Emperor's new clothes.

Now we have apathy with our domestic parliament and politicians and look- what is Farage doing? Oh, exactly the same as he did with Europe.

Again why not go in with one of the big three established parties? There was no guarantee UKIP would gain seats in 1999 and no guarantee they would keep them afterwards. That's taken a bit of effort/commitment/skillful charlatanry or whatever you want to call it. I'm sure Farage is shrewd enough to get himself onto the Tory list if that was all he was after.

Not that I think he's a saint, or that he doesn't enjoy the perks and the limelight, but don't they all?

With Farage I can at least see a man who believes in what he says, and says more or less what I agree with.

[pcvdriver]

PRTVR said:

Probably because they refuse to paint their faces Blue

They could always try red and white too - and see how well that goes down.... Actually in parts of Glasgow the colours would go down a storm, however in others - maybe not so well

[anonymous-user]

RE (again) why is Farage not in one of the main parties? See above: big fish, small pond, or small fish, big pond, take yer choice. To rise in one of the main parties you have to work very hard at political operating, rubber chicken dinners, and wheeler dealing, and do some actual boring work. It takes real dedication and effort, even if that effort is mostly in a bad and self serving cause. Farage has taken a short cut to the limelight, by taking control of a one man party. It is evident from the media appearances that Farage is a man brimmed with self regard who wants to be on every panel and talk show, and available for every sound bite interview. Why settle for an obscure backbench career when you can be in the public eye 24/7?

How can he believe what he says when he must know that the figures he trots out about the EU have been shown time and again to be false? There are many, many things wrong with the EU, but he focuses on lots of stuff that simply ain't true. He keeps saying the stuff because he knows that people want to hear it, and will believe the lies if they are said again and again. That makes him dishonest by any normal standard of what that means.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 9th April 11:20

[WinstonWolf]

zygalski said:

WinstonWolf said:

zygalski said:

WinstonWolf said:

zygalski said:

steveT350C said:

Maybe Farage will stand in Basingstoke at the next GE

I would have thought Bolton, Bradford, Oldham or Salford.
Some squalid, tense, inner city dump would be his best bet by far. Maybe not quite what he would have had in mind, but it's the best way for him to avoid losing his deposit next year.

You're so desperate it's untrue...

Go UKIP!

If I were in his shoes I'd want as many votes as possible. That is exactly what I would do. He would also attract plenty of BNP votes in the slums.
It hardly makes sense for NF to get a pounding in Esher & Walton for instance.

I think you'll find that's *exactly* where he's at his strongest. UKIP are the party for the middle aged hard working businessman.

I can smell your desperation, all you have is smear and it doesn't wash.

UKIP thrive on division, ignorance & fear.

My point is that the comfortable middle class constituencies make no sense if NF wants as much publicity as possible. The weaker Labour held inner city constituencies would be a far more logical choice.

Edited by zygalski on Wednesday 9th April 10:16

Nope, they thrive on giving the electorate what they want, a chance for a simple In/Out vote on our membership of the EU superstate.

If CMD gave a cast iron guarantee of a vote he would be able to take votes from UKIP, but as he won't he's dead in the water.

[scenario8]

Further, it really isn't as "easy" as many posting in NP+E might imagine to become a PPC for the leading political parties (in a seat likely to provide your election). Not at all.

I can't imagine any of the leading parties putting up with him were he in some sort of alternative universe attempted to seek a party career. At least, not putting up with him and allowing his promotion to the sort of levels in the public consciousnes he achieves today. He'd possibly get himself on the council in any number of places for any of the parties but I doubt that would have satisfied his ego or political ambitions. It definitely wouldn't pay anywhere near as well.

[10 Pence Short]

AJS- said:

Again why not go in with one of the big three established parties? There was no guarantee UKIP would gain seats in 1999 and no guarantee they would keep them afterwards. That's taken a bit of effort/commitment/skillful charlatanry or whatever you want to call it. I'm sure Farage is shrewd enough to get himself onto the Tory list if that was all he was after.

Not that I think he's a saint, or that he doesn't enjoy the perks and the limelight, but don't they all?

With Farage I can at least see a man who believes in what he says, and says more or less what I agree with.

How could he gain traction?

If he joined the Tories he'd be unable to make up policy on the hoof and get the con going.

He needed a new party, one he can direct, that has one simple and clear message- "let's bring down Europe from within". Do you think he could have made any of the main parties do this?

The success depended on being distinct from the others, not part of the others.

But here's the interesting question;

If Farage felt he couldn't get traction or have enough influence from within by joining a mainstream party, why would he think that approach would work as an MEP in the Europarliament? Answer: he doesn't. He doesn't care. As long as he can gravy train to the max, he doesn't really give a st.

Any time some scrutiny of his work (or lack of it, to be frank) comes in, he's "sticking it to the man" and destroying the EU from within. Well, he would be if he spent any bloody time there.

[zygalski]

WinstonWolf said:

Nope, they thrive on giving the electorate what they want, a chance for a simple In/Out vote on our membership of the EU superstate.

This is simply a failure in understanding in terms of you projecting your own priorities onto the electorate as a whole.
Ask the person on the street if they think the EU should have more or less power & of course, most will say the EU should have less. That I would not dispute for one moment.
However, ask the same people to prioritise these:

NHS
Education
Jobs
Membership of EU
Housing market
Taxation

and most would put membership of the EU at the bottom.
Until this light bulb goes on in your head, I'm afraid there is little I can do to help you understand why UKIP will get no seats next year.