Discussion
Rovinghawk said:
I give you the 9th of Peel's principles of policing:
"To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them."
Based on this they're failing miserably.
If his other principles were in the same vein then Peel was a muppet."To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them."
Based on this they're failing miserably.
La Liga said:
Mothersruin said:
I'd argue that certain unwanted elements of modern society are due to current policing policies.
The fundamentals causes of crime and disorder have little to do with the police. The police are primarily dealing with the outcomes of things like poverty, deprivation, lack of education etc. Mothersruin said:
How about cracking on and leave this b
ks until you've got a grip of the basics?
Like keeping courts and prisons full to capacity of criminals all the time, you mean? ks until you've got a grip of the basics?And as far as keeping courts and prisons full - what a daft statement. If there's serious criminal activity then it needs punishing - if we don't have capacity, build some and keep the rest of us safe - it's not a difficult concept.
Do that and the average Joe will happily support the Police.
Mothersruin said:
I'll start with the prevalence of 'Travellers' for ten as a result of the limp wrist of the law.
And as far as keeping courts and prisons full - what a daft statement. If there's serious criminal activity then it needs punishing - if we don't have capacity, build some and keep the rest of us safe - it's not a difficult concept.
Do that and the average Joe will happily support the Police.
And also we want lower taxes because the Government wastes all our money on 11-a-day teenage asylum seeker pregnancy counsellors.And as far as keeping courts and prisons full - what a daft statement. If there's serious criminal activity then it needs punishing - if we don't have capacity, build some and keep the rest of us safe - it's not a difficult concept.
Do that and the average Joe will happily support the Police.
ETA It costs c£50k pa to keep somebody locked up in prison.
Mothersruin said:
I'll start with the prevalence of 'Travellers' for ten as a result of the limp wrist of the law.
Travellers are likely to be the most over-represented group in the criminal justice system. Those who identify as GTRs in prison (which is believed to be an under representation), demonstrate this to be the case. In terms of additional laws that’s a matter for the government.
Mothersruin said:
And as far as keeping courts and prisons full - what a daft statement. If there's serious criminal activity then it needs punishing - if we don't have capacity, build some and keep the rest of us safe - it's not a difficult concept.
I highlighted it because of your statement that they should “do the basics”. My point was the police “do the basics” effectively which is why we’re full to capacity in courts / prisons. Prison capacity is a matter for the government. Build more and the police will fill those too.
It’s not so simple as prisons cost a lot of money directly and indirectly.
BlackLabel said:
POLICE: "Please report people to us for doing things that are not crimes."
https://mobile.twitter.com/syptweet/status/1039056...
What about London, double standards? Seems they're not adhering to S Yorkshire Police and their 'non' crimes reporting.https://mobile.twitter.com/syptweet/status/1039056...
Two coppers on the scene and neither do sweet f all, in spite of abuse and hate being hurled by 'the most dangerous man in Britain' (The People, 1984), one Ian Bone.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6158929/C...
dandarez said:
What about London, double standards? Seems they're not adhering to S Yorkshire Police and their 'non' crimes reporting.
Does it? Or does it not come under the definition that has been explained several times? It actually comes closer to an actual public order offence than anything else, but let's stick with people trying to understand the non-crime hate concept and not confuse things.
WinstonWolf said:
I understand what a "piss poor use of valuable resources" is. Unfortunately you don't appear to. Seriously, you've been on one too many PC courses for your own good.
You don't because you don't know what resources are / are not allocated to what. You also don't understand what types of reports are received and what risks can potentially be identified, so are in no position to make that judgement.
Seemingly consistent with a lot of your posts.
Countdown said:
Mothersruin said:
I'll start with the prevalence of 'Travellers' for ten as a result of the limp wrist of the law.
And as far as keeping courts and prisons full - what a daft statement. If there's serious criminal activity then it needs punishing - if we don't have capacity, build some and keep the rest of us safe - it's not a difficult concept.
Do that and the average Joe will happily support the Police.
And also we want lower taxes because the Government wastes all our money on 11-a-day teenage asylum seeker pregnancy counsellors.And as far as keeping courts and prisons full - what a daft statement. If there's serious criminal activity then it needs punishing - if we don't have capacity, build some and keep the rest of us safe - it's not a difficult concept.
Do that and the average Joe will happily support the Police.
ETA It costs c£50k pa to keep somebody locked up in prison.
Costs - make them work.
La Liga said:
Mothersruin said:
I'll start with the prevalence of 'Travellers' for ten as a result of the limp wrist of the law.
Travellers are likely to be the most over-represented group in the criminal justice system. Those who identify as GTRs in prison (which is believed to be an under representation), demonstrate this to be the case. In terms of additional laws that’s a matter for the government.
Mothersruin said:
And as far as keeping courts and prisons full - what a daft statement. If there's serious criminal activity then it needs punishing - if we don't have capacity, build some and keep the rest of us safe - it's not a difficult concept.
I highlighted it because of your statement that they should “do the basics”. My point was the police “do the basics” effectively which is why we’re full to capacity in courts / prisons. Prison capacity is a matter for the government. Build more and the police will fill those too.
It’s not so simple as prisons cost a lot of money directly and indirectly.
Capacity - I see your point, but it shouldn't be the reason why we don't punish people - Perhaps we need to look at ships or any other possibility. I don't know what the solution is, but it's not asking for workload to be ramped up by asking people to tell when people are a bit nasty to each other.
Mothersruin said:
GTR?
Capacity - I see your point, but it shouldn't be the reason why we don't punish people - Perhaps we need to look at ships or any other possibility. I don't know what the solution is, but it's not asking for workload to be ramped up by asking people to tell when people are a bit nasty to each other.
Gypsy, Traveller, Roma. Capacity - I see your point, but it shouldn't be the reason why we don't punish people - Perhaps we need to look at ships or any other possibility. I don't know what the solution is, but it's not asking for workload to be ramped up by asking people to tell when people are a bit nasty to each other.
Not sure about prison. If we're looking to reduce re-offending we need to look beyond simply putting people in prison.
“One of Britain’s most powerful police commissioners has called for a review of hate crime after revealing that current regulations had forced his officers to question an elderly woman under caution for beeping her horn at another car.
Anthony Stansfeld, the police commissioner for Thames Valley, said current laws meant detectives had to investigate anything that was “perceived” to be a hate crime, which could result in “huge injustices”.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thames-valley-p...
Non paywall.....
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/elderly-woma...
BlackLabel said:
“One of Britain’s most powerful police commissioners has called for a review of hate crime after revealing that current regulations had forced his officers to question an elderly woman under caution for beeping her horn at another car.
Anthony Stansfeld, the police commissioner for Thames Valley, said current laws meant detectives had to investigate anything that was “perceived” to be a hate crime, which could result in “huge injustices”.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thames-valley-p...
Non paywall.....
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/elderly-woma...
except their lack of common sense
techiedave said:
Nothing forced his officers to investigate and issue a caution
except their lack of common sense
Wrong. Unfortunately..have a wee read, be aware it isn't a soundbite article..except their lack of common sense
https://theweeflea.com/2018/10/29/the-political-po...
Edited by Kccv23highliftcam on Monday 5th November 08:58
techiedave said:
Nothing forced his officers to investigate and issue a caution
except their lack of common sense
Exactly. The only police action that would have been appropriate would be a caution for wasting police time given to the loony woman.except their lack of common sense
Kccv23highliftcam said:
Wrong. Unfortunately..
Does the law genuinely require a caution to be issued even when an incident like this is shown not to be a hate crime? If so it's even more badly broken that I thought it was.Edited by Mr2Mike on Monday 5th November 09:00
techiedave said:
BlackLabel said:
“One of Britain’s most powerful police commissioners has called for a review of hate crime after revealing that current regulations had forced his officers to question an elderly woman under caution for beeping her horn at another car.
Anthony Stansfeld, the police commissioner for Thames Valley, said current laws meant detectives had to investigate anything that was “perceived” to be a hate crime, which could result in “huge injustices”.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thames-valley-p...
Non paywall.....
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/elderly-woma...
except their lack of common sense
Edited by Bigends on Monday 5th November 21:42
Edited by Bigends on Monday 5th November 21:44
Man investigated by police for retweeting a non-positive transgender poem and told “We need to check your thinking”.
A docker from Humberside has been investigated by police over a limerick he posted on Twitter after an officer claimed it constitutes a ‘hate incident’ against transgender people. Harry Miller, 53, from Lincoln was contacted on Wednesday by a community cohesion officer following a complaint that had been made about the plant and machinery dealer’s social media posts.
A docker from Humberside has been investigated by police over a limerick he posted on Twitter after an officer claimed it constitutes a ‘hate incident’ against transgender people. Harry Miller, 53, from Lincoln was contacted on Wednesday by a community cohesion officer following a complaint that had been made about the plant and machinery dealer’s social media posts.
Telegraph said:
Citing 30 potentially offensive tweets, the PC singled out a limerick Mr Miller had retweeted which questioned whether transgender women are biological women. It included the lines: "Your breasts are made of silicone, your vagina goes nowhere."
Even though no crime was committed, sharing the limerick online was recorded as a ‘hate incident’.
Even though no crime was committed, sharing the limerick online was recorded as a ‘hate incident’.
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