Who is going to continue to wear a mask after 21st June?

[Carrot]

I wore one where I was legally mandated to, and won't be wearing one where not legally mandated to.

That is all.

I won't be joining in with the mass hysteria virtue signalling, and any business that requires mask wearing in their property once the legally mandated requirement is over,(outside of actual health and safety / medical reasons before COVID) will not be getting my future business.

[blade runner]

Funk said:

So to all those saying, 'Flu kills 'x' per year though...' when trying to downplay Covid - it shows that with some consideration for others it's possible to pretty much entirely prevent THOSE deaths too:

"According to Christina Pagel, a professor of operational research at University College London: “There’s been no flu season anywhere in the world this year, including the UK,” she told The Independent. “Flu is one of the big reasons that the NHS struggles every winter. But what I think is really interesting is that people say we live with flu deaths every year and kind of assumed they were unavoidable. Yet clearly they’re not. “If we wanted to, we’ve shown we can reduce flu deaths to pretty much zero. I don’t think that the damage we have done through lockdown is anything that anyone would support to prevent flu, but it does bring into question the idea of whether there is anything that we can do.”

Isn't it more likely that Covid is just that bit better than flu at killing vulnerable people this year? It's not that we've eliminated flu, just that all the people that would have died from flu this year have been picked off by Covid instead. If all the interventions have been so effective at reducing flu deaths to practically zero, then why have they had such limited impact on Covid?

All the lockdowns, social distancing, sanitizing, masks etc. - how can they be so effective for the flu virus but not for Covid when they are both similar viruses, spread in presumably similar ways? And if not, then by association all the interventions we have made so far presumably are not well suited to dealing with how Covid actually spreads through the population. Which then implies we don't actually understand very well how Covid spreads at all - despite being over a year into this now.

[jacobingonzo]

I can see me wearing a mask in built up places after June- I think the effect covid measures on some peoples mentality are understated- Im seriously thinking of wether I will attend any more football matches? some may mock but I bet Im not alone in this

[Promised Land]

TheJimi said:

I find it desperately sad that so many people find the wearing of masks to be "no big deal"

The wearing of masks as mandated, is hugely damaging to our social fabric. Seeing lips and facial expressions is a large and important part of how we communicate and interact with others.

We've lost sight of that - quite literally.

What an absolute load of cobblers or do I need a parrot?

We lost seeing lips and facial expressions many years ago with all the social media sites, pre Covid go into a city centre, or any busy area and the majority of folk even if in groups had their heads stuck in their phones.

In a car, you have a driver and his passenger usually is looking down, walking into a supermarket you can guarantee half are looking at their screens. The closest I’ve ever got to social media is here and another forum, I’ve never needed the facebooks of the world and I don’t see what they would do to improve my life.

There was a thread on here the other day with pics of Manchester airport in the 80’s, what was so refreshing looking through them was social interaction between everyone as nobody in any of the pics was staring at a crappy piece of plastic in their hands.

Your looking at faces and social expressions disappeared a long time ago I’m afraid.

Back on topic I wear a mask as and when I’m needed to and will do so until it ends, it’s no big deal really, just a mask.

No need to cry and go all dramatic over it, put it on, go in shop, come out and remove.

Edited by Promised Land on Friday 5th March 14:30

[TheJimi]

Countdown said:

GSE said:

They are nothing more than a placebo forced upon us by the Government to suit their agenda and scare us into submission.

What's their agenda?

In terms of masks, it's been noted by scientists (inc members of SAGE and SPI-M) that the mask mandates are a form of behaviour modification.

If you take the aspects of behaviour modification and efficacy of transmission prevention, I'd be willing to bet that behaviour modification is the higher driver.

[kingston12]

jacobingonzo said:

I can see me wearing a mask in built up places after June- I think the effect covid measures on some peoples mentality are understated- Im seriously thinking of wether I will attend any more football matches? some may mock but I bet Im not alone in this

Why would you not attend football matches? Genuine question, not mocking at all. Is it because of the residual risk of catching Covid?

I've decided that I'll never plan to visit a retail premises again, but that is because I don't enjoy doing that so why would I bother? Everything that I do enjoy, I'll be back to doing as soon as they are open, but I appreciate that everybody's risk profile and attitude is different.

[TheJimi]

Promised Land said:

TheJimi said:

I find it desperately sad that so many people find the wearing of masks to be "no big deal"

The wearing of masks as mandated, is hugely damaging to our social fabric. Seeing lips and facial expressions is a large and important part of how we communicate and interact with others.

We've lost sight of that - quite literally.

What an absolute load of cobblers or do I need a parrot?

We lost seeing lips and facial expressions many years ago with all the social media sites, pre Covid go into a city centre, or any busy area and the majority of folk even if in groups had their heads stuck in their phones.

In a car, you have a driver and his passenger usually is looking down, walking into a supermarket you can guarantee half are looking at their screens. The closest I’ve ever got to social media is here and another forum, I’ve never needed the facebooks of the world and I don’t see what they would do to improve my life.

There was a thread on here the other day with pics of Manchester airport in the 80’s, what was so refreshing looking through them was social interaction between everyone as nobody in any of the pics was staring at a crappy piece of plastic in their hands.

Your looking at faces and social expressions disappeared a long time ago I’m afraid.

Back on topic I wear a mask as and when I’m needed to and will do so until it ends, it’s no big deal really, just a mask.

No need to cry and go all dramatic over it, put it on, go in shop, come out and remove.

Edited by Promised Land on Friday 5th March 14:30

The only sentence there I agree with is the aspect of wearing one as and when needed, until the mandate ends.

The rest of it - utter ste.

Particularly this -

Promised Land said:

Your looking at faces and social expressions disappeared a long time ago I’m afraid.

Regardless, you think I'm talking ste as well, so we're all good.

[Carrot]

Surely this is worthy of a news blackout

[Mark Benson]

Funk said:

They just mark themselves out as 'That Type'; I guess they feel they're winning some sort of victory. Combinations of distancing, mask-wearing and improved hygiene are also responsible for the fact that there's been almost no reported cases of flu for months: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/flu-case...

So to all those saying, 'Flu kills 'x' per year though...' when trying to downplay Covid - it shows that with some consideration for others it's possible to pretty much entirely prevent THOSE deaths too:

"According to Christina Pagel, a professor of operational research at University College London: “There’s been no flu season anywhere in the world this year, including the UK,” she told The Independent. “Flu is one of the big reasons that the NHS struggles every winter. But what I think is really interesting is that people say we live with flu deaths every year and kind of assumed they were unavoidable. Yet clearly they’re not. “If we wanted to, we’ve shown we can reduce flu deaths to pretty much zero. I don’t think that the damage we have done through lockdown is anything that anyone would support to prevent flu, but it does bring into question the idea of whether there is anything that we can do.”

Aside from actual deaths from flu, how many hours of productivity are lost due to people being off sick with flu each year? I would have no issue with maintaining hand sanitising stations in public places along with the general courtesy of mask-wearing if someone thinks they may be coming down with something rather than coughing and spluttering their germs over everyone else. This sort of courtesy has been commonplace in the Far East for some time.

I'll start by saying that I do wear a mask in shops and elsewhere as a courtesy, I'm not one of 'those types'....

...however...

Masks don't really do much to stop viruses, it's a basic misunderstanding to think that because they trap droplets they're effective. Because those droplets are held by the mask in front of the mouth and nose where they become nebulised with each breath to produce aerosols which pass through the mask and can remain airborne for quite a long time.

As someone said above, NICE don't mandate the wearing of masks in theatres - An interesting paper on mask wearing in theatre here (note there is no mention of surgical masks being worn to prevent viral spread, it's all about the bacteria...)

Most surgeons do wear masks, but for many it's a case that their patients expect it and the evidence to say they provide NO protection (against bacteria) is absent also so you may as well (the precautionary priciple), though there are papers (such as this one, abstract 'No masks were worn in one operating theatre for 6 months. There was no increase in the incidence of wound infection') that suggest they may be more of a placebo, than a necessity.

Now to the article you cite. Always dangerous using the press for medical reference, journalists seldom understand and often misrepresent those they quote.
But note how the professor mentions flu deaths, not flu itself. People still catch flu, it's just the this year it seems, few have died from it.
The article appears to suggest these flu deaths have been eradicated because of the measures we've been using against Covid. That's quite an assumption given we've registered around 130,000 deaths against a pandemic disease of the respiratory tract - it's equally likely that those who would have been seen off by flu (the elderly and weakened) have either been locked away at home 'shielding' or already been seen off during 2020.

It's easy to jump to conclusions about Covid - we all want to see the back of it and we all want to be safe, but the government need to make decisions based on evidence and medical efficacy, not because their go-to 'experts' and behavioural scientists tell them to.

Edited by Mark Benson on Friday 5th March 14:52

[semisane]

GSE said:

They are nothing more than a placebo forced upon us by the Government to suit their agenda and scare us into submission.

Turn on the telly and look at any news channel with an item on Covid, anywhere in the world (with a few exceptions), and you will see people wearing masks.

The vast majority are wearing them outside too.

The UK by comparison has been very lax - possibly one of the reasons why we have such bad Covid stats.

[Carrot]

Mark Benson said:

I'll start by saying that I do wear a mask in shops and elsewhere as a courtesy, I'm not one of 'those types'....

So would you continue to wear a mask if they were not mandated as a courtesy? Which courtesy are you applying to that logic?

[nonsequitur]

jacobingonzo said:

I can see me wearing a mask in built up places after June- I think the effect covid measures on some peoples mentality are understated- Im seriously thinking of wether I will attend any more football matches? some may mock but I bet Im not alone in this

I think that wearing masks after June 21st will be compulsory - as now - as a trade off against 'freedom of movement'.

[Mark Benson]

Carrot said:

Mark Benson said:

I'll start by saying that I do wear a mask in shops and elsewhere as a courtesy, I'm not one of 'those types'....

So would you continue to wear a mask if they were not mandated as a courtesy? Which courtesy are you applying to that logic?

No, as they're required for people who don't have a valid exemption and it upsets and frightens some people to see others not wearing them, I wear one as a courtsey to those people. I don't feel it's really their fault that they're frightened given the relentless messaging.

But as soon as they're not a requirement I won't be doing so.

I suspect that there are many in public health who'd love to see us all in masks regardless of efficacy and I suspect the official advice will be to wear them forever in certain places. But I also suspect that only a small subset of people will do so and I certainly won't feel obliged in that case.

[Carrot]

Mark Benson said:

Carrot said:

Mark Benson said:

I'll start by saying that I do wear a mask in shops and elsewhere as a courtesy, I'm not one of 'those types'....

So would you continue to wear a mask if they were not mandated as a courtesy? Which courtesy are you applying to that logic?

No, as they're required for people who don't have a valid exemption and it upsets and frightens some people to see others not wearing them, I wear one as a courtsey to those people. I don't feel it's really their fault that they're frightened given the relentless messaging.

But as soon as they're not a requirement I won't be doing so.

I suspect that there are many in public health who'd love to see us all in masks regardless of efficacy and I suspect the official advice will be to wear them forever in certain places. But I also suspect that only a small subset of people will do so and I certainly won't feel obliged in that case.

Thanks for clarifying, and 100% agree.

[GSE]

TheJimi said:

I find it desperately sad that so many people find the wearing of masks to be "no big deal"

The wearing of masks as mandated, is hugely damaging to our social fabric. Seeing lips and facial expressions is a large and important part of how we communicate and interact with others.

We've lost sight of that - quite literally.

I agree, I find it sad too.

As humans, we have evolved over millions of years to use facial expression to communicate, yet some people seem happy to render it obsolete overnight by the enforced wearing of masks.

[GSE]

Promised Land said:

What an absolute load of cobblers or do I need a parrot?

We lost seeing lips and facial expressions many years ago with all the social media sites, pre Covid go into a city centre, or any busy area and the majority of folk even if in groups had their heads stuck in their phones.

In a car, you have a driver and his passenger usually is looking down, walking into a supermarket you can guarantee half are looking at their screens. The closest I’ve ever got to social media is here and another forum, I’ve never needed the facebooks of the world and I don’t see what they would do to improve my life.

There was a thread on here the other day with pics of Manchester airport in the 80’s, what was so refreshing looking through them was social interaction between everyone as nobody in any of the pics was staring at a crappy piece of plastic in their hands.

Your looking at faces and social expressions disappeared a long time ago I’m afraid.

Back on topic I wear a mask as and when I’m needed to and will do so until it ends, it’s no big deal really, just a mask.

No need to cry and go all dramatic over it, put it on, go in shop, come out and remove.

You need a parrot.

Whilst I agree that social media, and our addiction to smart phones has reduced social interaction through facial expression and eye contact, is that justification to ban those things permanently? Fined for displaying a smile in Public? What a sad world we will end up living in.

[GSE]

semisane said:

Turn on the telly and look at any news channel with an item on Covid, anywhere in the world (with a few exceptions), and you will see people wearing masks.

The vast majority are wearing them outside too.

I know, and doesn't it look st!

[Promised Land]

GSE said:

Fined for displaying a smile in Public? What a sad world we will end up living in.

Can you link where people have been fined for displaying a smile in public please.

[Mark Benson]

GSE said:

Promised Land said:

What an absolute load of cobblers or do I need a parrot?

We lost seeing lips and facial expressions many years ago with all the social media sites, pre Covid go into a city centre, or any busy area and the majority of folk even if in groups had their heads stuck in their phones.

In a car, you have a driver and his passenger usually is looking down, walking into a supermarket you can guarantee half are looking at their screens. The closest I’ve ever got to social media is here and another forum, I’ve never needed the facebooks of the world and I don’t see what they would do to improve my life.

There was a thread on here the other day with pics of Manchester airport in the 80’s, what was so refreshing looking through them was social interaction between everyone as nobody in any of the pics was staring at a crappy piece of plastic in their hands.

Your looking at faces and social expressions disappeared a long time ago I’m afraid.

Back on topic I wear a mask as and when I’m needed to and will do so until it ends, it’s no big deal really, just a mask.

No need to cry and go all dramatic over it, put it on, go in shop, come out and remove.

You need a parrot.

Whilst I agree that social media, and our addiction to smart phones has reduced social interaction through facial expression and eye contact, is that justification to ban those things permanently? Fined for displaying a smile in Public? What a sad world we will end up living in.

And how do we convey emotion on social media in the absence of face-to-face communication?



....with faces!

[Terminator X]

Funk said:

greygoose said:

Over over under steer said:

Some odd people here seemingly virtuously stating they have never wore one - odd.

I’ll stop when I’m told to stop for sure, but I’ve understood the reasons and the benefits of wearing one. Older people and immunocompromised should consider continuing to wear them in busy areas, but completely optional.

They see themselves as heroes who are sticking it to the government, whereas they are more like Boris boasting about shaking hands with all and sundry before he was carted off to hospital.

They just mark themselves out as 'That Type'; I guess they feel they're winning some sort of victory. Combinations of distancing, mask-wearing and improved hygiene are also responsible for the fact that there's been almost no reported cases of flu for months: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/flu-case...

So to all those saying, 'Flu kills 'x' per year though...' when trying to downplay Covid - it shows that with some consideration for others it's possible to pretty much entirely prevent THOSE deaths too:

"According to Christina Pagel, a professor of operational research at University College London: “There’s been no flu season anywhere in the world this year, including the UK,” she told The Independent. “Flu is one of the big reasons that the NHS struggles every winter. But what I think is really interesting is that people say we live with flu deaths every year and kind of assumed they were unavoidable. Yet clearly they’re not. “If we wanted to, we’ve shown we can reduce flu deaths to pretty much zero. I don’t think that the damage we have done through lockdown is anything that anyone would support to prevent flu, but it does bring into question the idea of whether there is anything that we can do.”

Aside from actual deaths from flu, how many hours of productivity are lost due to people being off sick with flu each year? I would have no issue with maintaining hand sanitising stations in public places along with the general courtesy of mask-wearing if someone thinks they may be coming down with something rather than coughing and spluttering their germs over everyone else. This sort of courtesy has been commonplace in the Far East for some time.

Edited by Funk on Friday 5th March 14:05

None?

I can't find anything more recent:

"Of all death occurrences between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) compared with 13,619 deaths due to pneumonia and 394 deaths due to influenza."

From here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

TX.