Election 2019

[turbobloke]

jsf said:

Bill said:

It might do. Once they win the price will collapse.

The whole sector share price will collapse with the resultant collspse of investment and potentially end of service for millions of people. Throw a few hundred thousand jobs on the scrap heap whilst you are at it.

Its a great idea if you want to see the UK telecoms sector scrapped.

That would be a great slogan...Labour Doesn't Work / Labour Isn't Working. Hang on did somebody get there first?!

[vaud]

Helicopter123 said:

The policy, as I understand it, is not just about "free broadband", it's about bringing forward the investment required to give UK PLC the high speed full fibre infrastructure required to compete with other nations. I can't see why anyone would see that as a bad thing other than "because Corbyn"?

The government are committed to paying much of the cost of the infrastructure anyway, but Openreach are failing to deliver at anything like the required pace.

To some extent there is a natural brake on Openreach called the law.

It takes time to get permission in some areas. Openreach don't have a right to do what they want.
Wayleaves take time and consent to negotiate (as most core infrastructure runs over other peoples land). If the landlord/owner won't accept - what do you do?

Also, digging up stuff causes disruption (some can be "pulled through" but not all)

[stongle]

Helicopter123 said:

The government are committed to paying much of the cost of the infrastructure anyway, but Openreach are failing to deliver at anything like the required pace.

Absolute 100% tosh, and shows how abysmal your understanding of Labour's funding plans.

1. They plan to appropriate Openreach shs below market value, which is theft from pension funds. They are planning to lift at book rather than market value. Fact.

2. The 100bn required to complete the project, they believe they can borrow in capital markets. If you have just made yourself an economic pariah with government theft, how are you going to do this at a reasonable rate?

3. McDonnell has made up a brand new accoounting system, never before seen in the world where he thinks he can offset equity assets with debt. He's having a giraffe.

Look, you must be about 16 if you believe this is doable, or you are a Momentum stooge?

You actually haven't a scooby about this election or government funding at all, do you?

If you don't know, dont post.

Edit to add, if someone came on here advocating selling ringing kits; we'd be all over them. Helicopter123 (and his mates), are advocating and supporting theft on a much larger scale. Wow. This has nothing to do with political bias, but listening to Labour policy through the lips of McDonnell. The fact he believes the electorate is too stupid to understand says little of him and the likes of helicopter123 whom repeats this stuff.

Edited by stongle on Friday 15th November 20:15

[anonymous-user]

I suppose I could google this but thought I'd ask here, and I didn't think it warrants a separate thread.

Regarding spoils ballot papers - do these become public? I'm sure I've seen a montage, vaguely thought it was on HIGNFY or some such, and they've shown the 'best' ones.

I don't plan to do it myself, but I can't help feeling with the current atmosphere, people not thinking their vote counts and want to make a statement, there could be a whole influx of these.

Is it people taking pictures during voting or at the counting stage?!

[Helicopter123]

otolith said:

FiF said:

Out of interest what are Labour saying about the many ordinary folks who have thousands invested in BT shares, currently paying about 7% according to one report, so many have pensions and retirement plans etc hanging off this.

Presumably Labour are saying nothing but expecting to say tough titty you dirty rich capitalists. I don't have BT shares, as it happens, so no axe near the grinding stone for me.

They will be compensated.

With UK government bonds.

Borrowing money to invest in infrastructure projects is good news for the economy though, providing these assets provide a return in excess of the cost of borrowing.

[Zirconia]

Dont like rolls said:

ANYTHING buried in the ground will always be pushed past max performance until it is a bottle neck, then it always cost more to replace.

On a housing estate?

[Helicopter123]

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

The government are committed to paying much of the cost of the infrastructure anyway, but Openreach are failing to deliver at anything like the required pace.

The usual misguided piffle

Edited by stongle on Friday 15th November 20:15

Please stop trolling, if you have nothing to add to the debate other than your blinkered political ramblings, I would suggest retreating to Twitter and venting as you see fit.

[Sway]

Helicopter123 said:

otolith said:

FiF said:

Out of interest what are Labour saying about the many ordinary folks who have thousands invested in BT shares, currently paying about 7% according to one report, so many have pensions and retirement plans etc hanging off this.

Presumably Labour are saying nothing but expecting to say tough titty you dirty rich capitalists. I don't have BT shares, as it happens, so no axe near the grinding stone for me.

They will be compensated.

With UK government bonds.

Borrowing money to invest in infrastructure projects is good news for the economy though, providing these assets provide a return in excess of the cost of borrowing.

What return do you expect to get from giving away the service that asset provides for free?

[Helicopter123]

Sway said:

Helicopter123 said:

otolith said:

FiF said:

Out of interest what are Labour saying about the many ordinary folks who have thousands invested in BT shares, currently paying about 7% according to one report, so many have pensions and retirement plans etc hanging off this.

Presumably Labour are saying nothing but expecting to say tough titty you dirty rich capitalists. I don't have BT shares, as it happens, so no axe near the grinding stone for me.

They will be compensated.

With UK government bonds.

Borrowing money to invest in infrastructure projects is good news for the economy though, providing these assets provide a return in excess of the cost of borrowing.

What return do you expect to get from giving away the service that asset provides for free?

Increased productivity = increased growth = increased tax take.

[stongle]

Helicopter123 said:

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

The government are committed to paying much of the cost of the infrastructure anyway, but Openreach are failing to deliver at anything like the required pace.

The usual misguided piffle

Edited by stongle on Friday 15th November 20:15

Please stop trolling, if you have nothing to add to the debate other than your blinkered political ramblings, I would suggest retreating to Twitter and venting as you see fit.

You are advocating theft. McDonnell was quite clear on paying book not market value. This is theft from pension funds.

Further more, his plan to keep UK balance sheet flat is a nonsense, you end up with a balance sheet gross up. The only one whom should'nt be posting here is you. You are supporting theft and have zero technical knowledge.

[Tony427]

Helicopter123 said:

otolith said:

FiF said:

Out of interest what are Labour saying about the many ordinary folks who have thousands invested in BT shares, currently paying about 7% according to one report, so many have pensions and retirement plans etc hanging off this.

Presumably Labour are saying nothing but expecting to say tough titty you dirty rich capitalists. I don't have BT shares, as it happens, so no axe near the grinding stone for me.

They will be compensated.

With UK government bonds.

Borrowing money to invest in infrastructure projects is good news for the economy though, providing these assets provide a return in excess of the cost of borrowing.

OMG. The internet will be free. FOC. Costs Nada, Nothing, Zero. Corbyn has decreed it.

What exactly will the return to the Govt be when its giving stuff away?

I'll give you a hint. Nothing. What will they have to pay Bondholders? Nothing. What will the Govt have to attract Bondholders in the Govt? Nothing .
How much will the Govt raise? Lots at ridiculous rates. Who will pay for it? Us and our kids. And their Kids.


Can you see the flaw in this brilliant plan?

Only I won't, because I will be out of here. As will any other business owner whose assets are liquid and mobile.I can invoice from anywhere. Even countries where the internet is a lot slower.

Cheers,

Tony

Edited by Tony427 on Friday 15th November 21:23

[Helicopter123]

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

The government are committed to paying much of the cost of the infrastructure anyway, but Openreach are failing to deliver at anything like the required pace.

The usual misguided piffle

Edited by stongle on Friday 15th November 20:15

Please stop trolling, if you have nothing to add to the debate other than your blinkered political ramblings, I would suggest retreating to Twitter and venting as you see fit.

You are advocating theft. McDonnell was quite clear on paying book not market value. This is theft from pension funds.

Further more, his plan to keep UK balance sheet flat is a nonsense, you end up with a balance sheet gross up. The only one whom should'nt be posting here is you. You are supporting theft and have zero technical knowledge.

You accuse me of being "about 16" or "a Momentum stooge" because I want to debate the merits of a significant policy, possibly the most significant new policy announced during the course of this GE campaign?

You then double down by accusing me of supporting theft?

That I'm afraid, is simply trolling.

[stongle]

Helicopter123 said:

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

The government are committed to paying much of the cost of the infrastructure anyway, but Openreach are failing to deliver at anything like the required pace.

The usual misguided piffle

Edited by stongle on Friday 15th November 20:15

Please stop trolling, if you have nothing to add to the debate other than your blinkered political ramblings, I would suggest retreating to Twitter and venting as you see fit.

You are advocating theft. McDonnell was quite clear on paying book not market value. This is theft from pension funds.

Further more, his plan to keep UK balance sheet flat is a nonsense, you end up with a balance sheet gross up. The only one whom should'nt be posting here is you. You are supporting theft and have zero technical knowledge.

You accuse me of being "about 16" or "a Momentum stooge" because I want to debate the merits of a significant policy, possibly the most significant new policy announced during the course of this GE campaign?

You then double down by accusing me of supporting theft?

That I'm afraid, is simply trolling.

No its not. You are repeating inaccurate nonsense. McDonnell was quite clear on 1) paying book rather than market value 2) no UK balance sheet increase.

1, is theft
2, no accounting system in the world allows for.

You keep posting bks, you get double downed on. Since you brag about a degree, you don't look the sharpest tool in the box when you haven't even bothered to listen to what McDonnell said.

The only trolling is you - posting nonsense again, again and again.

Borrow to invest, is not what the broadband policy is about (even you called it a gimmick earlier, short memory?).

[Helicopter123]

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

The government are committed to paying much of the cost of the infrastructure anyway, but Openreach are failing to deliver at anything like the required pace.

The usual misguided piffle

Edited by stongle on Friday 15th November 20:15

Please stop trolling, if you have nothing to add to the debate other than your blinkered political ramblings, I would suggest retreating to Twitter and venting as you see fit.

You are advocating theft. McDonnell was quite clear on paying book not market value. This is theft from pension funds.

Further more, his plan to keep UK balance sheet flat is a nonsense, you end up with a balance sheet gross up. The only one whom should'nt be posting here is you. You are supporting theft and have zero technical knowledge.

You accuse me of being "about 16" or "a Momentum stooge" because I want to debate the merits of a significant policy, possibly the most significant new policy announced during the course of this GE campaign?

You then double down by accusing me of supporting theft?

That I'm afraid, is simply trolling.

No its not. You are repeating inaccurate nonsense. McDonnell was quite clear on 1) paying book rather than market value 2) no UK balance sheet increase.

1, is theft
2, no accounting system in the world allows for.

You keep posting bks, you get double downed on. Since you brag about a degree, you don't look the sharpest tool in the box when you haven't even bothered to listen to what McDonnell said.

The only trolling is you - posting nonsense again, again and again.

Borrow to invest, is not what the broadband policy is about.

And there you go again, more trolling. This time its I'm not "the sharpest tool in the box"?

If all you have are insults, no-one is going to bother with anything else you have to say.

[stongle]

Helicopter123 said:

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

stongle said:

Helicopter123 said:

The government are committed to paying much of the cost of the infrastructure anyway, but Openreach are failing to deliver at anything like the required pace.

The usual misguided piffle

Edited by stongle on Friday 15th November 20:15

Please stop trolling, if you have nothing to add to the debate other than your blinkered political ramblings, I would suggest retreating to Twitter and venting as you see fit.

You are advocating theft. McDonnell was quite clear on paying book not market value. This is theft from pension funds.

Further more, his plan to keep UK balance sheet flat is a nonsense, you end up with a balance sheet gross up. The only one whom should'nt be posting here is you. You are supporting theft and have zero technical knowledge.

You accuse me of being "about 16" or "a Momentum stooge" because I want to debate the merits of a significant policy, possibly the most significant new policy announced during the course of this GE campaign?

You then double down by accusing me of supporting theft?

That I'm afraid, is simply trolling.

No its not. You are repeating inaccurate nonsense. McDonnell was quite clear on 1) paying book rather than market value 2) no UK balance sheet increase.

1, is theft
2, no accounting system in the world allows for.

You keep posting bks, you get double downed on. Since you brag about a degree, you don't look the sharpest tool in the box when you haven't even bothered to listen to what McDonnell said.

The only trolling is you - posting nonsense again, again and again.

Borrow to invest, is not what the broadband policy is about.

And there you go again, more trolling. This time its I'm not "the sharpest tool in the box"?

If all you have are insults, no-one is going to bother with anything else you have to say.

Suggest you read again.

1, I explained how your understanding of what was proposed and discussed was not investment nor even possible.
2, I typed "you don't look the sharpest tool in the box". Not "you aren't the sharpest tool in the box".

I suggest you listen better and pay more attention to what you read.

There is no debate when you do not understand what Labour have actually proposed. Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) which is more like borrow to invest it is not.

[anonymous-user]

You are wasting your time stongle, budgie is a plank.

[stongle]

jsf said:

You are wasting your time stongle, budgie is a plank.

I'm done now. Thanks for the nudge!

[turbobloke]

The Lord Ashcroft Polls focus group people have visited "three Labour-held, Leave-voting seats of the kind the Conservatives are looking to regain in their quest for a majority".

‘A bit of raspberry ripple’

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/he-put-the-m...

[motco]

motco said:

Helicopter123 said:

Today feels like the day the GE moved on from Brexit.

The surprise announcement from Labour to provide free full fibre broadband to every home and business in the UK by 2030 is dominating the conversation.

Part of the rationale is to bring forward the infrastructure investment required to bring our broadband capacity and speeds up to international levels, boosting productivity and economic growth. I hadn't realised just how far behind the likes of Spain and Portugal our broadband actually is.

Other countries with state provided broadband are also years ahead of the UK.

If this was a Tory policy, I think we would all be behind it.

It very much feels like a Boris policy - "just get it done".

Lets see how the polls react, but that large Tory lead could start to look quite fragile.

Genuine question. How do you square McDonnell's alleged aim of 'boosting productivity and economic growth' with his Who's Who entry containing this

John McDonnell's WW entry said:

...Who's Who entry talks of "generally fermenting the overthrow of capitalism"

Economic growth is a capitalist feature which has been decried by the left in the past.

I'll try again to get an answer to this oxymoron.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Helicopter123 said:

Borrowing money to invest in infrastructure projects is good news for the economy though, providing these assets provide a return in excess of the cost of borrowing.

It's also an oft used cover for spunking a load of money on vanity projects.