Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 2]

[bosscerbera]

Mermaid said:

S&P warns of $46tn refinancing challenge
European companies could face serious challenges refinancing a wall of maturing debt over the next few years as the region's banks deal with the impact of regulation and fallout from the eurozone debt crisis, according to a new report from Standard & Poor's.

PMSL!!

$46Tn refinancing challenge - CHALLENGE!!

[turbobloke]

coyft said:

garyhun said:

Did anyone see this last night?

This World: Michael Portillo’s Great Euro Crisis

I was surprised by the support for the Euro. If it's longevity is based on the will of the people to retain it, then it has a long future ahead of it.

The will of eurocrats is a force to be reckoned with as well, as seen in the past year or two. Self-interest was always a powerful motivator.

[bosscerbera]

coyft said:

garyhun said:

Did anyone see this last night?

This World: Michael Portillo’s Great Euro Crisis

I was surprised by the support for the Euro. If it's longevity is based on the will of the people to retain it, then it has a long future ahead of it.

It doesn't surprise me - it suggests that there may be at least an inkling of Europe's vulnerability. Independent states cannot support the lifestyles their citizens have come to expect. Any European state - UK included - having to get what it wants from elsewhere purely by trading what it can find within its borders would be fücked. The choice is stark: have 'less lifestyle' or have less people.

This is why Europhiles - despite the € imploding - still talk of UK membership at some point. The problem, as most correspondents on this thread understand, is that the € doesn't work because it's a disingenuous compromise. What it needs in order to work - full union - is abhorrent to most European citizens.

The magnitude of this economic/financial challenge is daunting enough itself but it is coincident with serious global population vs resource challenges.

As I have said many times before, Euro-bïtching is a side show.

[davepoth]

bosscerbera said:

PMSL!!

$46Tn refinancing challenge - CHALLENGE!!

The most recent figures I can find (2005) suggest the world economy (the whole thing) is $55tn, to put that into perspective. Europe needs to refinance more than the GDP of the WHOLE WORLD.

[bosscerbera]

davepoth said:

bosscerbera said:

PMSL!!

$46Tn refinancing challenge - CHALLENGE!!

The most recent figures I can find (2005) suggest the world economy (the whole thing) is $55tn, to put that into perspective. Europe needs to refinance more than the GDP of the WHOLE WORLD.

[thinfourth2]

davepoth said:

bosscerbera said:

PMSL!!

$46Tn refinancing challenge - CHALLENGE!!

The most recent figures I can find (2005) suggest the world economy (the whole thing) is $55tn, to put that into perspective. Europe needs to refinance more than the GDP of the WHOLE WORLD.

But its not real money

Its tax payers money which is infinite

[Andy Zarse]

Driller said:

Blimey.

Do you know Steffan, it might be all the usual bluster and it's not there yet but I'm starting to think there's the possibility that I may have to consider consuming my cranial apparel after all.

I know you strongly object to the term PIIGS on the basis it is politically incorrect, but still you don't seem to be nearly as poh-faced as you used to be so

[Andy Zarse]

bosscerbera said:

Steffan said:

bosscerbera said:

Spain set to nationalise Bankia

I understand and I appreciate the comment. But what does it actually mean? In reality?

Spain cannot pay its debts as it is now. Spain is already wholly insolvent. Adding more debt to the Spanish deficiency cannot solve any problems. The Bankia Bank is no less insolvent nationalised, than it is currently.

This is a complete sham and ridiculous. The whole lot are totally insolvent.

But, because the insolvent ECB will lend to Spain, everything will be all right, according to the EU politicians. No it will not! This is heading for a huge default and there is no reality in this dishonesty.

"Clutching at straws" would be a kind description. Wholesale dishonesty a more accurate representation.

The idea is that european taxpayers will repay their, and other people's, loans twice.

Steffan is going to just love this one! It describes in simple terms how the ECB's money merry go round works, or rather that it doesn't work...

http://www.mindfulmoney.co.uk/wp/shaun-richards/th...

[coanda]

turbobloke said:

coyft said:

garyhun said:

Did anyone see this last night?

This World: Michael Portillo’s Great Euro Crisis

I was surprised by the support for the Euro. If it's longevity is based on the will of the people to retain it, then it has a long future ahead of it.

The will of eurocrats is a force to be reckoned with as well, as seen in the past year or two. Self-interest was always a powerful motivator.

I saw the program. I just couldn't understand how the germans thought it would be great if we joined. F*ck that bullsh*t. Which is pretty much what Portillo said to one of the ministerial puppets/automatons!

That German finance minister reeked of the euro trough......

Portillo: Greece should never have joined.....
Puppet: Yes, thats all spilt milk...don't look back, look forward!

Do you think it was edited to make most of them look like they had blinkers on?

As time goes on, I'm beginning to think that the euro was solely a German cashcow.

[Steffan]

Andy Zarse said:

bosscerbera said:

Steffan said:

bosscerbera said:

Spain set to nationalise Bankia

I understand and I appreciate the comment. But what does it actually mean? In reality?

Spain cannot pay its debts as it is now. Spain is already wholly insolvent. Adding more debt to the Spanish deficiency cannot solve any problems. The Bankia Bank is no less insolvent nationalised, than it is currently.

This is a complete sham and ridiculous. The whole lot are totally insolvent.

But, because the insolvent ECB will lend to Spain, everything will be all right, according to the EU politicians. No it will not! This is heading for a huge default and there is no reality in this dishonesty.

"Clutching at straws" would be a kind description. Wholesale dishonesty a more accurate representation.

The idea is that european taxpayers will repay their, and other people's, loans twice.

Steffan is going to just love this one! It describes in simple terms how the ECB's money merry go round works, or rather that it doesn't work...

http://www.mindfulmoney.co.uk/wp/shaun-richards/th...

You are right I do.

What concerns me is the clear reasonable assessment apparent, in such articles, that the Euro and EU are out and out crooks, and the whole mess is collapsing, laid out in a sensible statement. is simply ignored by the rest of the press and the whole of the EU. There is no attempt to refute the logic just grand pronouncements and Grand Standing by EU leaders.

I suppose in reality, the immoral dishonesty that ruined the Icelandic Banks, British Banks, American Banks, Irish Banks and indeed the entire Banking system in 2008, has infected the world of politics with the same barrow boy mentality and the total refusal to admit any wrongdoing or mistake is the result.

If you read the article, which seems, to me, to be substantially fair in it assessments, the EU clearly cannot go on with this because it is totally unaffordable claptrap.

The bare faced denials really do worry me. Are we at the point where the leaders do not give a toss about the reality of their madcap schemes? I rather think we are. More us the pity, This is no going to end well. There is simply, no shame in dishonesty any more.

On the comment by Andy Zarse that I nay be less Poe faced than I was I think the comments of a number of PH'ers' that I was ringing, a bloody funeral bell a bit too often, may have had an effect on my prose. Hopefully for the better.

I still think the HBAT's (formerly PIIGS), are still going bust. Shortly.

[Jaged]

coanda said:

As time goes on, I'm beginning to think that the euro was solely a German cashcow.

A light-hearted view on it all.

I suspect that the German problem was having such a strong currency that they could not expand their manufacturing to produce and export more. Growth to pay for the old East you know!

So they anchor their currency to the weaker member states and by dragging that anchor the Euro could not blow away like a strong German currency would.

This allowed German industry to rule the roost with a little bit of French dressing, but then the GIPSI states unhooked the anchor and started to sun-surf behind German/French speedboat.

German/France have cut back the motor, as it was overheating dragging all that baggage and the surfers are sitting lower in the water.

Believe me, if German and French banks were not hocked up to the hilt in GIPSI loans, they would have cut the tow rope ages ago.

But there is so much weight on the tow rope if they don't keep the GIPSIs on the plane above water it will pull the boat down with it!

So to reduce the load on plane, all the Gold is being transferred into the boat from the GIPSI skiers pockets.

All the while the GIPSI skiers are shouting at the Germans to ignore the overheating engine and lack of fuel to even reach dry land, "just speed up we are sinking"!

Once the boat is full and the GIPSIs are skint, they will cut the Euro tow line.

Germany (France??) will eventually dump the Euro and together the thrifty Northern States will start up a Saxon Dollar to leave the all debt in the Euro!

And all the while, Britannia stays afloat at slow-ahead watching all this and trying to ride out the storm without drifting too far off course.



EFA typo

Edited by Jaged on Friday 11th May 00:35

[WhoseGeneration]

Steffan said:

I still think the HBAT's (formerly PIIGS), are still going bust. Shortly.

Nope, because they are already "bust", however, greater interests have decided that this truth will be denied.

[Driller]

Andy Zarse said:

I know you strongly object to the term PIIGS on the basis it is politically incorrect, but still you don't seem to be nearly as poh-faced as you used to be so

I like that hat!

I didn't miss the wink Andy but at the risk of flogging a dead horse, I feel compelled to say your interpretation of me couldn't be further from the truth. I hate the political correctness argument, it's a waste of everybody's time and anyway it's a lie designed to cover up for people's pathetic sensibilities.

The PIIGS thing for me is a question of honour, principle and respect. Think etiquette of a dawn duel. Nobody's expecting anyone to pander to these people, I just think it's right they are shown respect the same as you or I would want. PIIGS doesn't do that. My Spanish friend would punch the lights out of someone who referred to his country as that and then his girlfriend would wee on him

Damn, I like that hat.

[rogerthefish]

Oh no now the Spanish banks need a 100bn...end game in sight and it's not going to be pleasant or orderly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis...

[Irish]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/0...

[DJRC]

Driller said:

Andy Zarse said:

I know you strongly object to the term PIIGS on the basis it is politically incorrect, but still you don't seem to be nearly as poh-faced as you used to be so

I like that hat!

I didn't miss the wink Andy but at the risk of flogging a dead horse, I feel compelled to say your interpretation of me couldn't be further from the truth. I hate the political correctness argument, it's a waste of everybody's time and anyway it's a lie designed to cover up for people's pathetic sensibilities.

The PIIGS thing for me is a question of honour, principle and respect. Think etiquette of a dawn duel. Nobody's expecting anyone to pander to these people, I just think it's right they are shown respect the same as you or I would want. PIIGS doesn't do that. My Spanish friend would punch the lights out of someone who referred to his country as that and then his girlfriend would wee on him

Damn, I like that hat.

We're British. We havent respected the rest of the world for the last 1500 years, why should we start now?

[Mermaid]

DJRC said:

We're British. We havent respected the rest of the world for the last 1500 years, why should we start now?

Because we are no longer Great?

[DJRC]

We werent much cop 1500 yrs ago, didnt seem to stop us!

[Steffan]

Mermaid said:

DJRC said:

We're British. We havent respected the rest of the world for the last 1500 years, why should we start now?

Because we are no longer Great?

Interesting observation by Mermaid. Indeed where once we unquestionably ruled the waves, probably around the time of the Titanic, we unquestionably are in that league no longer. But we still have the dreams if grandeur. And attitude.

The posts by DJRC, Andy Zarse, Irish and rogerthefish make the economic reality of this mess and the inevitable consequences crystal clear. This situation cannot continue for long.

Pistonheads provides a far more realistic assessment of the HBAT's crisis than mainstream media. Clearly the slimy influence of politics over reporting and reporting over politics keeps the unwelcome news off the front pages. But that is no help to the mainstream public who are fed utter tripe by the mainstream press.

With the current rate of change in the situation I can see the end game coming up pretty quickly. I do wonder what will break first?

[Gary11]

How does that work where Bankia are sinking yet less thean a year ago they were still buying other banks (ie purchased and swallowed Bancaja) now they are potless??