Muslim protests in UK

[smegmore]

TheHeretic said:

smegmore said:

968 said:

TheHeretic said:

I presume you just assume I was saying something negative? I am a staunch atheist, but I wish people merry Christmas, as this woman did, because it is a cultural thing, not a religious one anymore so much.

I didn't quite understand your meaning of cultural thing. Thank you for clarifying for me and I entirely agree with you. Wishing people a merry Christmas isn't the exclusive preserve of anyone, which is why the above posting seems rather bizarre and paranoid.

968, I find your comment rather strange.
Do you consider that an atheist who is understanding of cultural 'things' is paranoid?

The 'cultural thing' is quite simple. Despite me never having believed in any religious/supernatural stuff, at all, I have grown up with Christmas, Easter, and so on, and it is part of British life. I do not ignore it, or refuse to say Merry Christmas, or give or receive gifts, and so n. it is a cultural thing. Just as when I was in Dubai during Ramadan, we slotted into the local way of doing things. We ate in large tents near the docks with all the Muslims who were following their own rituals.

So, Christmas is Cultural because it is in the societal make up, religious belief of not.

Thanks TH, I couldn't have put it better myself as an atheist.

[Hellbound]

So many sad bds commenting in this thread. I doubt they can go a day without making some disgusting generalization based on some rubbish they've read off the EDL or BNP forums, or from what some Imam has said to get attention and then linking to some equally xenophobic site/youtube clip. It really is pathetic. But then again, we're all free to spend our lives being rather stupid aren't we?

I know many Muslims and we wish one another a Merry Christmas without a seconds thought, and a happy new year too. But I'm guessing you lot don't think they mean it and it's all some sinister trap! When you walk up to someone who's Chinese do you wish them a happy new year? Or do you think they're not part of our 'culture' so they shouldn't be involved because 'they' have their own new year?

Like I said, there's some flagrant bullsh*t being spouted in this thread and I get the feeling that the rest of you are just looking on and nodding sagely as if you've all stumbled upon some open secret that society simply refuses to acknowledge. Give me a break. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves. The only solution that would satisfy you all would be two or three generations worth of ethnic cleansing.

Anyway, around a third of big issue sellers are Roma/Romanian gipsy. They often wear headscarves because they're Roman Catholic. I'm guessing you saw the headscarf and thought 'Muslim' and then thought she was lying and trying to trick you into buying a magazine. Laughable.

[Caulkhead]

968 said:

Caulkhead said:

The purpose of wishing Merry Christmas is clear - she wants to sell more magazine. Money is a universal language.

So what? I've been wished a merry Christmas by countless sales staff in supermarkets, shops etc, should they not wish me a merry Christmas? It's the same guff as people complaining about American sales service being fake etc. frankly, I'd rather the salesperson be fake but polite rather than rude and surly as we are more used to here. The religion of the salesperson is even less relevant. That it should even be notable is bizarre.

You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder - I was implying nothing except that she's selling things at Christmas. I don't recall mentioning anything else in my post, especially not her religion as I have no idea what it is.

[968]

Caulkhead said:

You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder - I was implying nothing except that she's selling things at Christmas. I don't recall mentioning anything else in my post, especially not her religion as I have no idea what it is.

My apologies about the last sentence which was not directed at you but rather at Terenceb.

[terenceb]

Quite agree! There was no "malice" intended in my post,and yes,the woman IS muslim,just seemed rather strange that she should be saying merry christmas to one who only say's things to people that they mean. I must say though that there are some very odd comments on here though! I thought the whole idea of moving to another country was to integrate and accept the DIFFERENT way of life?

[968]

terenceb said:

Quite agree! There was no "malice" intended in my post,and yes,the woman IS muslim,just seemed rather strange that she should be saying merry christmas to one who only say's things to people that they mean. I must say though that there are some very odd comments on here though! I thought the whole idea of moving to another country was to integrate and accept the DIFFERENT way of life?

Quite. So why does it shock you that she wished you a merry Christmas or is she not allowed to? With regards to it meaning something, I'd guess that the majority here don't actually believe Christmas is the birth of the son of god, so are they not allowed to say it either?

[PoleDriver]

Hellbound said:

Anyway, around a third of big issue sellers are Roma/Romanian gipsy.

Have you got a source for this 'statistic'?

[blindswelledrat]

terenceb said:

ee! There was no "malice" intended in my post,

terenceb said:

Attempt at integration or being two faced in the hope of selling more?

Suggesting that a muslim who wishes someone "Merry Christmas" is two faced or has an agenda, is not malicious?
Jesus, I would hate to see you deliberately trying to be malicious

[blindswelledrat]

Caulkhead said:

968 said:

Caulkhead said:

The purpose of wishing Merry Christmas is clear - she wants to sell more magazine. Money is a universal language.

So what? I've been wished a merry Christmas by countless sales staff in supermarkets, shops etc, should they not wish me a merry Christmas? It's the same guff as people complaining about American sales service being fake etc. frankly, I'd rather the salesperson be fake but polite rather than rude and surly as we are more used to here. The religion of the salesperson is even less relevant. That it should even be notable is bizarre.

You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder - I was implying nothing except that she's selling things at Christmas. I don't recall mentioning anything else in my post, especially not her religion as I have no idea what it is.

HE has a chip on his shoulder?
Look at your own quote. You do not believe that someone can wish someone a 'merry christmas' without having an ulterior motive, if they are muslim.
Personally, as an aetheist, I have wished dozens of people Merry Christmas over the past few weeks and in 99% of the cases I didn't want anything. Admittedly there was one woman who I would have liked to have sex with, but that's just an aside. How is it different that it is fine for me, and not for a muslim?

[PoleDriver]

terenceb said:

In Ely a couple of days ago,there was a woman selling The Big Issue,clearly of Islamic origin and wishing all who passed her a merry christmas! Attempt at integration or being two faced in the hope of selling more?

Or maybe she recognised the fact that the passers-by were Christians and were wishing them well for their biggest religious festival, in the same way we could wish them a pleasant Ramadan even though we are not Muslim!

[terenceb]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/imgs/9.gifhttp:...

[PoleDriver]

terenceb said:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/imgs/9.gifhttp:...

[terenceb]

968 said:

Quite. So why does it shock you that she wished you a merry Christmas or is she not allowed to? With regards to it meaning something, I'd guess that the majority here don't actually believe Christmas is the birth of the son of god, so are they not allowed to say it either?

Quite correct,the date is wrong for a start.Besides which,it was my observation,surely,this being [a reasonably] free speech country,I am allowed those without being taken to task?Right or wrong,it just seemed so strange and in some respects,offensive.

Edited by terenceb on Thursday 27th December 10:07

[Doogs]

Hellbound said:

Anyway, around a third of big issue sellers are Roma/Romanian gipsy. They often wear headscarves because they're Roman Catholic. I'm guessing you saw the headscarf and thought 'Muslim' and then thought she was lying and trying to trick you into buying a magazine. Laughable.

Yes, it must have been just as you say, terenceb is clearly not able to determine for himself. What is laughable is that you find something that you've made up (to suit your own view of terenceb) laughable.

[blindswelledrat]

terenceb said:

Quite correct,the date is wrong for a start.Besides which,it was my observation,surely,this being [a reasonably] free speech country,I am allowed those without being taken to task?Right or wrong,it just seemed so strange and in some respects,offensive.

Free speech does not mean that you can say whatever you want "without being taken to task". It equally applies to being able to tell someone when they are talking st.

Why is it only "offensive" when it is a muslim that wishes you a merry christmas?
Are you religious? Assuming not, why is it not offensive when YOU say it to other people? Or when other non-religious people say it to you.
Christmas is not a "white" festivity it is a religious one.
Try and explain why, exactly, it is offensive for a muslim to exchange cultural pleasantaries because you havent done a very good job so far and just come across as nasty and intolerant

[968]

terenceb said:

968 said:

Quite. So why does it shock you that she wished you a merry Christmas or is she not allowed to? With regards to it meaning something, I'd guess that the majority here don't actually believe Christmas is the birth of the son of god, so are they not allowed to say it either?

Quite correct,the date is wrong for a start.Besides which,it was my observation,surely,this being [a reasonably] free speech country,I am allowed those without being taken to task?Right or wrong,it just seemed so strange and in some respects,offensive.

Edited by terenceb on Thursday 27th December 10:07

How could it possibly be offensive for someone to wish you a Merry Christmas? I find it hugely ironic on a thread devoted to highlighting how certain groups take offence to any perceived slight that you should demonstrate so clearly how someone can take offence to a pleasantry!

Your comment about the date is facile to say the least. It's commonplace for people to wish one another a merry Christmas, before Christmas Day. I'm not sure about etiquette on your planet, but here, in this country we offer a seasonal greeting throughout advent.

As has been said, you're free to make whatever comment you like, just as I'm free to point out when you're talking bks.

[Bill]

TheHeretic said:

(You seem to be making the fundamental error that folks are talking about ALL Muslims. We are not. We are talking about the ones that we are referring to.

There are plenty on this thread who seem to disagree. Unless Muslim Big Issue sellers are automatically considered extremists.

[TheHeretic]

Bill said:

There are plenty on this thread who seem to disagree. Unless Muslim Big Issue sellers are automatically considered extremists.

I don't think Terence counts as 'plenty'.

[LostBMW]

Bill said:

TheHeretic said:

(You seem to be making the fundamental error that folks are talking about ALL Muslims. We are not. We are talking about the ones that we are referring to.

There are plenty on this thread who seem to disagree. Unless Muslim Big Issue sellers are automatically considered extremists.

I'd only worry if she said it was the "Big Issue BIG BANG! Special".


And it came in a sealed brown jiffy bag.

[Bill]

TheHeretic said:

I don't think Terence counts as 'plenty'.

Have you met him?

The plenty includes those that assume any Muslim who doesn't march on London anytime a Muslim in the world does something wrong must be a terrorist.