Dyson job losses

[ex1]

cardigankid said:

Not exactly. I believe that in the course of an abysmally poor public debate the public were lied to on a breathtaking scale by individuals who then to a man abandoned the ship to the control of people who had not actually voted for Brexit in the first place, like Theresa May. The vote was 52% to 48% which is far from overwhelming. I have never heard any rational arguments in favour of Brexit and am now witnessing an unplanned political car crash as a direct result of it. The economic damage is becoming clearer by the day. I am therefore forced to the conclusion that supporters of Brexit are irrational Little Englanders who think that this is still the nation of Drake, Clive and Rhodes. I don’t know if they drive Austin Allegros but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Given that the public have now seen the weakness of the British negotiating position, the lack of any leadership from those who urged this course of action, the absence of any coherent plan and the accelerating de industrialisation of the country as businesses head for the exit, I think that there should be a second and better informed referendum. I doubt we would see much of Boris or Farage.

Don’t believe the hype. We’re the 5th largest economy in the world, everything is going to be fine. We import more from the EU than we export and have a much larger service based economy making us much more adaptable. The Germans are hoping to pump just under 1 million cars into the uk over the next 12mths not to mentions the fridges, cookers etc, these business will figure it out.

The EU is an unmitigated disaster, unrecognisable from the initial concept just because the breakup might be difficult doesn’t mean you should stay in a bad relationship.

[anonymous-user]

cardigankid said:

Not exactly. I believe that in the course of an abysmally poor public debate the public were lied to on a breathtaking scale by individuals who then to a man abandoned the ship to the control of people who had not actually voted for Brexit in the first place, like Theresa May. The vote was 52% to 48% which is far from overwhelming. I have never heard any rational arguments in favour of Brexit and am now witnessing an unplanned political car crash as a direct result of it. The economic damage is becoming clearer by the day. I am therefore forced to the conclusion that supporters of Brexit are irrational Little Englanders who think that this is still the nation of Drake, Clive and Rhodes. I don’t know if they drive Austin Allegros but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Given that the public have now seen the weakness of the British negotiating position, the lack of any leadership from those who urged this course of action, the absence of any coherent plan and the accelerating de industrialisation of the country as businesses head for the exit, I think that there should be a second and better informed referendum. I doubt we would see much of Boris or Farage.

May I ask you a serious question? Have you seen anyone or received treatment for your apparent issues?

I’ve seem lots of posts of yours on many subjects but can’t tecall one with a speck of optimism or positivity.

If it’s not Jaguar who are doomed to failure it’s the ‘irrational little Englanders’ or the multinational Dyson who only make vacuum cleaners, hand driers and hair driers.

Is there anything positive in your life?

I see you’re in Scotland, maybe a dour jock but seriously, why do you bother?

[zygalski]

It's nice to see the PH Brexiteers being so positive and stating what a great shape the UK economy is in after 40+ years membership of the EU.

[amusingduck]

zygalski said:

It's nice to see the PH Brexiteers being so positive and stating what a great shape the UK economy is in after 40+ years membership of the EU.

Is that correlation, or causation, though?

I would have expected us to be struggling, and France/Germany to be doing well. The opposite is true at the moment, surprisingly.

[zygalski]

amusingduck said:

zygalski said:

It's nice to see the PH Brexiteers being so positive and stating what a great shape the UK economy is in after 40+ years membership of the EU.

Is that correlation, or causation, though?

I would have expected us to be struggling, and France/Germany to be doing well. The opposite is true at the moment, surprisingly.

I tell you what - we'll never know. So let's just ditch it & hope for the best, eh?
And while we're at it, let 25% of the adult population who don't even work help decide.
David Cameron is a tt.

[cardigankid]

REALIST123 said:

May I ask you a serious question? Have you seen anyone or received treatment for your apparent issues?

I’ve seem lots of posts of yours on many subjects but can’t tecall one with a speck of optimism or positivity.

If it’s not Jaguar who are doomed to failure it’s the ‘irrational little Englanders’ or the multinational Dyson who only make vacuum cleaners, hand driers and hair driers.

Is there anything positive in your life?

I see you’re in Scotland, maybe a dour jock but seriously, why do you bother?

None of that is any kind of argument for Brexit. I was quite happy in the EU, at least it represented a degree of economic stability. Maybe that's a dour perspective, but accurate nevertheless. As for JLR, you may not have seen Autocar's inclusion of the F Type in their list of cars which never quite hit the spot. If they had taken my advice, which granted they were never ever going to even notice, that wouldn't have happened. Dyson may be a multinational but evidently not a British based one nor in this economically volatile era, I suspect, one with a particularly long shelf life.

Do you honestly think that Dyson are going to 'invent' a revolutionary new car? After Musk/Tesla's efforts, and truly extraordinary achievement? Against the combined R&D budget of VW, Mercedes, BMW, Ford and others, not to mention Uber, now focussed on that? At most they will produce a GPS controlled white blob incorporating established technology with a Dyson label on the front and hope that the brand is enough to sell it.

I call it what it is, if you don't like that, too bad.

[andymadmak]

zygalski said:

I tell you what - we'll never know. So let's just ditch it & hope for the best, eh?
And while we're at it, let 25% of the adult population who don't even work help decide.

You believe that the unemployed should be disenfranchised?

zygalski said:

David Cameron is a tt.

In general, or more specifically because he kept his promise to offer a Referendum? The same promise that the leaders of every major political party had made in the preceding 15 years, but had then broken once they got elected.....

So, in Zygalski utopia, the unemployed are not to be considered worthy of making decisions, (presumably that would also apply if they agreed with your own view on a subject?) and political leaders who actually do what they said they were going to do prior to being elected are the villains....

Your mask slips.

[andymadmak]

cardigankid said:

As for JLR, you may not have seen Autocar's inclusion of the F Type in their list of cars which never quite hit the spot. If they had taken my advice, which granted they were never ever going to even notice, that wouldn't have happened.

As this is PH, I have to ask what advice did you give to JLR and why are you so confident that you would have secured a better future for JLR than the senior leadership team there?

[Piha]

ex1 said:

cardigankid said:

Not exactly. I believe that in the course of an abysmally poor public debate the public were lied to on a breathtaking scale by individuals who then to a man abandoned the ship to the control of people who had not actually voted for Brexit in the first place, like Theresa May. The vote was 52% to 48% which is far from overwhelming. I have never heard any rational arguments in favour of Brexit and am now witnessing an unplanned political car crash as a direct result of it. The economic damage is becoming clearer by the day. I am therefore forced to the conclusion that supporters of Brexit are irrational Little Englanders who think that this is still the nation of Drake, Clive and Rhodes. I don’t know if they drive Austin Allegros but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Given that the public have now seen the weakness of the British negotiating position, the lack of any leadership from those who urged this course of action, the absence of any coherent plan and the accelerating de industrialisation of the country as businesses head for the exit, I think that there should be a second and better informed referendum. I doubt we would see much of Boris or Farage.

snip

Don’t believe the hype.

snip

Mmmm, now who does ex1 remind me of..........

[cardigankid]

andymadmak said:

zygalski said:

David Cameron is a tt.

In general, or more specifically because he kept his promise to offer a Referendum? The same promise that the leaders of every major political party had made in the preceding 15 years, but had then broken once they got elected.....

So, in Zygalski utopia, the unemployed are not to be considered worthy of making decisions, (presumably that would also apply if they agreed with your own view on a subject?) and political leaders who actually do what they said they were going to do prior to being elected are the villains....

Your mask slips.

You of course are a positive thinking liberal who can do no wrong.

Not that long ago, there was a suggestion, shouted down by the left wing side of the house, that unless you paid taxes you should not have a vote. What was wrong with that (Poll Tax) was that the local tax was set at a uniform rate, which though ridiculously low by the standards of a country gent Tory MP living in Downton Abbey with Parliamentary expenses, was clearly unfair to those with less resources. Actually, it was not a bad idea if it were more cleverly designed, because it is a fundamental flaw in democracy that everyone has a vote but not everyone has to pay for the consequences, and that is fundamentally what has led us to this mess.

Anyway, the Brexiteer's cry is always don't worry about the problems, take a positive approach. That's what the politicians urge us to do. I rather think that was what Luke Johnson was doing at Pat Val, and where you end up is 1. Only report good news 2. If there is no good news make it up 3. Help your self to the fictional profits.

At risk of being PH's answer to Private Fraser, I would rather be realistic, unlike, er, Realist123.

[Piha]

REALIST123 said:

May I ask you a serious question? Have you seen anyone or received treatment for your apparent issues?

I’ve seem lots of posts of yours on many subjects but can’t tecall one with a speck of optimism or positivity.

If it’s not Jaguar who are doomed to failure it’s the ‘irrational little Englanders’ or the multinational Dyson who only make vacuum cleaners, hand driers and hair driers.

Is there anything positive in your life?

I see you’re in Scotland, maybe a dour jock but seriously, why do you bother?

Why the infantile name calling and petty insults?

[cardigankid]

andymadmak said:

cardigankid said:

As for JLR, you may not have seen Autocar's inclusion of the F Type in their list of cars which never quite hit the spot. If they had taken my advice, which granted they were never ever going to even notice, that wouldn't have happened.

As this is PH, I have to ask what advice did you give to JLR and why are you so confident that you would have secured a better future for JLR than the senior leadership team there?

Strangely, I was, and I still am. Too many jobsworths. Too much 'positive thinking', 'no problems, just challenges', 'reaching out'. The same people who wouldn't allow Sir William Lyons to buy BMW back in the day. Too risky. Better let BMW buy us. You can Google a speech Bob Lutz gave on the reasons for the decline of the US car industry, very illuminating, and many comparable issues at JLR.

The XJ was a poor design which should never have been signed off. They did not have their QC issues sorted out before they started building the XF, which is the real reason they can't compete with BMW. The F Type should never have been signed off with restricted internal space, virtually nil luggage space, massively overweight (due to its chopped down XK chassis), a gearbox which was uncompetitive with PDK, and priced to compete with the 911. But nobody is prepared to be seen as negative, and in the UK enough positive thinking is regarded as a suitable antidote to reality.

Better than driving a vacuum cleaner though.

[cardigankid]

Piha said:

REALIST123 said:

May I ask you a serious question? Have you seen anyone or received treatment for your apparent issues?

I’ve seem lots of posts of yours on many subjects but can’t tecall one with a speck of optimism or positivity.

If it’s not Jaguar who are doomed to failure it’s the ‘irrational little Englanders’ or the multinational Dyson who only make vacuum cleaners, hand driers and hair driers.

Is there anything positive in your life?

I see you’re in Scotland, maybe a dour jock but seriously, why do you bother?

Why the infantile name calling and petty insults?

Don't worry I can take it.

[toppstuff]

ex1 said:

Don’t believe the hype. We’re the 5th largest economy in the world, everything is going to be fine. We import more from the EU than we export and have a much larger service based economy making us much more adaptable. The Germans are hoping to pump just under 1 million cars into the uk over the next 12mths not to mentions the fridges, cookers etc, these business will figure it out.

The EU is an unmitigated disaster, unrecognisable from the initial concept just because the breakup might be difficult doesn’t mean you should stay in a bad relationship.

We have become the 5th largest economy in the world while also being a member of the EU. This is fact.

So the EU is quite clearly not an unmitigated disaster, given we have done so well as members of it.

[amusingduck]

toppstuff said:

ex1 said:

Don’t believe the hype. We’re the 5th largest economy in the world, everything is going to be fine. We import more from the EU than we export and have a much larger service based economy making us much more adaptable. The Germans are hoping to pump just under 1 million cars into the uk over the next 12mths not to mentions the fridges, cookers etc, these business will figure it out.

The EU is an unmitigated disaster, unrecognisable from the initial concept just because the breakup might be difficult doesn’t mean you should stay in a bad relationship.

We have become the 5th largest economy in the world while also being a member of the EU. This is fact.

So the EU is quite clearly not an unmitigated disaster, given we have done so well as members of it.

It is also a fact that we were the 4th largest economy in the world in 1960.

Maybe random facts aren't the best way to argue your point, unless you're demonstrating a causal link

[alfie2244]

toppstuff said:

We have become the 5th largest economy in the world while also in spite of being a member of the EU. This is fact.

So the EU is quite clearly not an unmitigated disaster, given we have done so well even as members of it.

FTFY.

[toppstuff]

amusingduck said:

toppstuff said:

ex1 said:

Don’t believe the hype. We’re the 5th largest economy in the world, everything is going to be fine. We import more from the EU than we export and have a much larger service based economy making us much more adaptable. The Germans are hoping to pump just under 1 million cars into the uk over the next 12mths not to mentions the fridges, cookers etc, these business will figure it out.

The EU is an unmitigated disaster, unrecognisable from the initial concept just because the breakup might be difficult doesn’t mean you should stay in a bad relationship.

We have become the 5th largest economy in the world while also being a member of the EU. This is fact.

So the EU is quite clearly not an unmitigated disaster, given we have done so well as members of it.

It is also a fact that we were the 4th largest economy in the world in 1960.

Maybe random facts aren't the best way to argue your point

Because China. They rose up and took their position above us. So maybe meaningless data isn't the best way to argue your point ( if you have one ) .

[amusingduck]

toppstuff said:

amusingduck said:

toppstuff said:

ex1 said:

Don’t believe the hype. We’re the 5th largest economy in the world, everything is going to be fine. We import more from the EU than we export and have a much larger service based economy making us much more adaptable. The Germans are hoping to pump just under 1 million cars into the uk over the next 12mths not to mentions the fridges, cookers etc, these business will figure it out.

The EU is an unmitigated disaster, unrecognisable from the initial concept just because the breakup might be difficult doesn’t mean you should stay in a bad relationship.

We have become the 5th largest economy in the world while also being a member of the EU. This is fact.

So the EU is quite clearly not an unmitigated disaster, given we have done so well as members of it.

It is also a fact that we were the 4th largest economy in the world in 1960.

Maybe random facts aren't the best way to argue your point

Because China. They rose up and took their position above us. So maybe meaningless data isn't the best way to argue your point ( if you have one ) .

Meaningless data is a great way to argue against meaningless data, if you ask me

[chrispmartha]

alfie2244 said:

toppstuff said:

We have become the 5th largest economy in the world while also in spite of being a member of the EU. This is fact.

So the EU is quite clearly not an unmitigated disaster, given we have done so well even as members of it.

FTFY.

You've just changed his quote to a supposition rather than how it was originally written which was factual.

[toppstuff]

chrispmartha said:

alfie2244 said:

toppstuff said:

We have become the 5th largest economy in the world while also in spite of being a member of the EU. This is fact.

So the EU is quite clearly not an unmitigated disaster, given we have done so well even as members of it.

FTFY.

You've just changed his quote to a supposition rather than how it was originally written which was factual.

Thats the standard of too much brexit support in debates these days I am afraid. It seems facts do not matter any more.