Met police institutionally racist, misogynistic, homophobic

[Biggy Stardust]

XCP said:

bmwmike said:

Not just racist. Strip searches as young as 8 without an appropriate adult present. Appalling.

24% 10-15
76% 16 and 17.
Where do the 8 year olds fit in?

Remember when you disbelieved me about male officers strip-searching a girl until I showed you proof?

Bad behaviour most certainly happens.

[XCP]

Biggy Stardust said:

XCP said:

bmwmike said:

Not just racist. Strip searches as young as 8 without an appropriate adult present. Appalling.

24% 10-15
76% 16 and 17.
Where do the 8 year olds fit in?

Remember when you disbelieved me about male officers strip-searching a girl until I showed you proof?

Bad behaviour most certainly happens.

I know. I just wondered where the 8 year olds appeared in the figures. ( I can't remember the point about male officers to be honest)

[Derek Smith]

otolith said:

Is exclusion cause or correlation, though? Often they are excluded because they are making everyone else's lives a misery.

Not necessarily. As I alluded to, my lad, who has three years experience in deflection, said that the majority of those he was dealing with were excluded just before exam time. Coincidence? Stats, it seems, is everything. He created quite a rugby team in his time; known for their ferocity and, perhaps, making the lives of the opposition a misery. Committed was the word ,he said. The boys, and it was all boys, responded to, as he said, someone building them up. It is fair to say that some would not revolutionise the world, but they could be, and many did become, positive contributors.

But stats again. During school time, these kids were standing around outside post offices, being moved on by police, who got to recognise them, and who, no doubt, thought they were making everyone's life a misery. This caused problems. They became named, numbered and nicked. My lad was cheaper than a PC, took dozens off the streets, made them work for the various sports, and showed them that they were not destined for the criminal system. I could tell you the % of those who were deflected, according to the stats, but that would be an insult given what I've posted.

[Derek Smith]

XCP said:

Biggy Stardust said:

XCP said:

bmwmike said:

Not just racist. Strip searches as young as 8 without an appropriate adult present. Appalling.

24% 10-15
76% 16 and 17.
Where do the 8 year olds fit in?

Remember when you disbelieved me about male officers strip-searching a girl until I showed you proof?

Bad behaviour most certainly happens.

I know. I just wondered where the 8 year olds appeared in the figures. ( I can't remember the point about male officers to be honest)

I struggle with regards the 8-year-old. I've done a bit of a search, but found nothing detailed. The feeling is that there's more to this. I can see reasons for strip-searching juveniles, although not in the absence of an appropriate adult.

I'll ask my eldest, who's a journo, if he has any info.

[XCP]

I have heard of young children, below the age of 10, being used as couriers precisely because of their age. I am not claiming that people below the age of 10 are not being searched, I just wonder where they sit in the figures quoted.

[Biggy Stardust]

XCP said:

I know. I just wondered where the 8 year olds appeared in the figures. ( I can't remember the point about male officers to be honest)

It was regarding the strip search mentioned here:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ch...

[Derek Smith]

Biggy Stardust said:

XCP said:

I know. I just wondered where the 8 year olds appeared in the figures. ( I can't remember the point about male officers to be honest)

It was regarding the strip search mentioned here:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ch...

The report https://assets.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/wpuplo... is far from detailed on the 8-year-old, or 8-year-olds, although it seems to say that the search was carried out in a police station. I should hope so too. Whether this was in the custody block or not is unknown. There are different forms of search. A strip search should not be confused with an intimate search.

The general instructions, this is going back a bit, used to be that a strip search requires the removal of more than outer clothing. It does not include shoes and socks. It includes looking into a mouth. In certain cases, a strip search may be conducted following a stop/search.

An intimate search is one involving body orifices (other than the mouth).

If the reports are correct, some of the searches did not conform to PACE. If so, then one wonders how the custody officer justified them.

I still feel that there is a lot about this search of the 8-year-old we don't know. If it is in a national report, and used as justification for recommendations, there should be some form of general explanation as to circs.

[Biggy Stardust]

Derek Smith said:

If the reports are correct, some of the searches did not conform to PACE. If so, then one wonders how the custody officer justified them.

I suspect it's based on "I am da lawwww!" [/Dredd]

[otolith]

Derek Smith said:

Not necessarily. As I alluded to, my lad, who has three years experience in deflection, said that the majority of those he was dealing with were excluded just before exam time. Coincidence? Stats, it seems, is everything. He created quite a rugby team in his time; known for their ferocity and, perhaps, making the lives of the opposition a misery. Committed was the word ,he said. The boys, and it was all boys, responded to, as he said, someone building them up. It is fair to say that some would not revolutionise the world, but they could be, and many did become, positive contributors.

But stats again. During school time, these kids were standing around outside post offices, being moved on by police, who got to recognise them, and who, no doubt, thought they were making everyone's life a misery. This caused problems. They became named, numbered and nicked. My lad was cheaper than a PC, took dozens off the streets, made them work for the various sports, and showed them that they were not destined for the criminal system. I could tell you the % of those who were deflected, according to the stats, but that would be an insult given what I've posted.

I seem to remember research showing a correlation between poor self regulation in pre-schoolers and subsequent criminality as adults - I’m not disputing that exclusion is associated with criminality, I’m questioning cause and effect. I suspect the damage was done much earlier.

[Derek Smith]

otolith said:

I seem to remember research showing a correlation between poor self regulation in pre-schoolers and subsequent criminality as adults - I’m not disputing that exclusion is associated with criminality, I’m questioning cause and effect. I suspect the damage was done much earlier.

There's a lot of dispute with regards cause and effect. The old idea of 'they are just bad' is obviously just wrong, but we have bias of those in authority which produces the self-fulfilling prophecy of 'I always knew he'd turn out bad'. I'm not sure which theory is in the ascendent nowadays, but I think it is more or less accepted that it's very nuanced.

Once a child is identified as troublesome, they've got the mark of Cain on them. If there's a group of six kids acting less than in an exemplary manner, the one everyone picks out is the 'troublesome' one who was, obviously given his/her history, a band 'un.

Personally, as a copper, I felt I could identify those young offenders who'd go on to self-destruct as an adult, and those who would become productive. Therefore, I was probably part of the problem.

[s1962a]

another wrong'un

https://news.sky.com/story/metropolitan-police-off...

They got rid of him (suspended) as soon as it was brought to the Met's attention.

[s1962a]

Creepy Campbell

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/met-policeman-c...

[bitchstewie]

Six former Met officers given suspended prison sentences.

Met Police: Ex-officers sentenced over racist WhatsApp posts

[JuanCarlosFandango]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/metropolitan...

Seems like a pretty bad apple, and not much of a sanction.

[Biggy Stardust]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/metropolitan...

Seems like a pretty bad apple, and not much of a sanction.

One expects no better.

[Random_Person]

Oh yes, the culture.

[MrBogSmith]

bhstewie said:

Six former Met officers given suspended prison sentences.

Met Police: Ex-officers sentenced over racist WhatsApp posts

I question whether private WhatsApp messages between bigoted idiots should be a crime.

[mick987]

MrBogSmith said:

bhstewie said:

Six former Met officers given suspended prison sentences.

Met Police: Ex-officers sentenced over racist WhatsApp posts

I question whether private WhatsApp messages between bigoted idiots should be a crime.

I must admit I was thinking the same thing. Seems a bit of a slippery slope,

[g3org3y]

mick987 said:

MrBogSmith said:

bhstewie said:

Six former Met officers given suspended prison sentences.

Met Police: Ex-officers sentenced over racist WhatsApp posts

I question whether private WhatsApp messages between bigoted idiots should be a crime.

I must admit I was thinking the same thing. Seems a bit of a slippery slope,

article said:

The court heard Lewis was called by Newsnight after a member of the group became angry at the nature of the messages between the officers and "broke ranks" by revealing the contents to journalists.

article said:

Judge Ikram, who dismissed the claim that the WhatsApp group was private and the messages were not intended to be made public, told the former officers they "ought to have known, and it is difficult for me to accept that you did not know, that these were racist posts".

Simple as that?

article said:

He added: "There would always be a risk that even within a private group that these posts would become public."

Certainly true. Only as private as your 'leakiest' member.

[272BHP]

MrBogSmith said:

question whether private WhatsApp messages between bigoted idiots should be a crime.

Indeed.