The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain

[LongQ]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

LongQ said:

The Chinese academics

The Liars make-believe ones? Or real one ?

The real ones Paddy - as named previously, albeit the names can be a tad challenging to search for.

At least I assume they are the real ones since names match and there are multiple publications over a period of a few years.

However I am slightly suspicious that the different sources of the paper publications might not be entirely consistent in their record of the year in which a paper is published unless there have been a number of revisions and enhancements.

I'm not sure I would be able to work that one out even if I had the enthusiasm for doing so.

The paper I read was published in December 2017.

Dynamic Power Flow Cascading Failure Analysis of
Wind Power Integration with Complex
Network Theory
Yushu Sun 1 ID , Xisheng Tang 1,*, Guowei Zhang 1, Fufeng Miao 2 and Ping Wang 3

[Ali G]

A little more on constraint payments here...

http://euanmearns.com/uk-wind-constraint-payments/

And here...

http://nationalgridconnecting.com/grounds-for-cons...

[Toltec]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

And because I can't find a more recent article I have borrowed some of your Old Newspapers :


From 2014 :

"Gas company special payments dwarf constraint payments to windfarms"


National Grid makes figures public for first time as government considers cutting windfarm subsidies before election. National Grid made special payments of £300m over the last 12 months to big energy companies – sometimes for switching off their power stations in an attempt to "balance" the system.

The huge payout dwarfs the £37m paid to windfarms to remain offline over the same period to the end of February – a figure used by critics to question the advisability of supporting renewable energy.




So bizarrely - for you - an utter non fking story ?

I'm guessing that it is cheaper to effectively pay for standby capacity that can be called on if demand requires it than pay to have a plant spin up without warning if demand peaks, assuming the latter is even possible. I'm also guessing that some of those payments are made because they are taking power from wind turbines because it happens to be windy and it is cheaper to do that and pay gas plants not to produce than pay wind not to produce and but power from gas plants.

Or something

[Wayoftheflower]

turbobloke said:

Meanwhile, back on-topic...

Translation "look over there, a minkey, there's nothing to see here". Absolutely brilliant!

Link to page 133 for those playing at home.

[wc98]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Meanwhile those so called Coal Munching Germans......

https://www.ge.com/reports/wind-turbines-batteries...

Are aiming to remove the intermittency

"
The clean-energy hybrid should help keep Germany’s electric grid more stable, says Thorsten Mack, GE’s project leader for the wind turbines project, and help the country reach its goal of getting nearly half its power from renewables by 2030. Electricity grids will often turn to other power sources like fossil fuels when the wind dies down, but in this case, they’ll be able to turn to another renewable energy.

The hydropower plant will be operational by the end of 2018, but even without the water-sourced power, each GE 3.4-137 turbine can already produce 10 gigawatt-hours, enough to supply 2,500 average German four-person homes. GE also provided software like the Digital Wind Farm application, which parses through turbine, grid and weather data to predict how much power should flow into the grid"


Progress with pictures, rather than fabrication by fairies

interesting, i was behind the times when i mentioned pumped water storage earlier in the thread . lot of water to remove from the system in a time when climate change related droughts are a concern for some (not me) . in saying that rain is not exactly scarce in germany .

[Ali G]

Presumably by sticking a massive tank on top of an offshore windmill job jobbed with a spot of filtration.

[Toltec]

Ali G said:

Presumably by sticking a massive tank on top of an offshore windmill job jobbed with a spot of filtration.

Might bugger up the airflow, particularly given how thick the tower might need to be.

[Ali G]

Toltec said:

Ali G said:

Presumably by sticking a massive tank on top of an offshore windmill job jobbed with a spot of filtration.

Might bugger up the airflow, particularly given how thick the tower might need to be.

Hmmm...

OK - man-made offshore island with big old elevated tank and central lagoon built adjacent to windfarm.

Should be a few grants available to science the sh*t out of that.

[LongQ]

How soon will the giant water pump recoup its CO2 investment?

Does anyone have any links to the costings and running cost calculations?

Would it not have been cheaper and far less intrusive to the landscape to keep the nukes running?

[Ali G]

greenpeas on nuclear...

http://m.greenpeace.org/international/en/high/camp...

greenpeas said:

Greenpeace opposes nuclear power because it is dangerous, polluting, expensive and non-renewable.

And governmental policy is determined by pressure groups lobbying - not the electorate

[Toltec]

Ali G said:

s on nuclear...

http://m.greenpeace.org/international/en/high/camp...

greenpeas said:

Greenpeace opposes nuclear power because it is dangerous, polluting, expensive and non-renewable.

And governmental policy is determined by pressure groups lobbying - not the electorate

They do realise what solar power comes from and for that matter wind?

fkwits

[MYOB]

Ali G said:

And governmental policy is determined by pressure groups lobbying - not the electorate

You really have no idea how government policy is formulated. This is ignorance and a fairly typical tabloid viewpoint.

[LongQ]

MYOB said:

Ali G said:

And governmental policy is determined by pressure groups lobbying - not the electorate

You really have no idea how government policy is formulated. This is ignorance and a fairly typical tabloid viewpoint.

I for one am more than interested to discover the secret if you can share it.

For example the then Bryony Worthington and the 2008 Climate Change Act. That seems like a good place to start.

So how was that chunk of policy formulated?

[V8 Fettler]

MYOB said:

Ali G said:

And governmental policy is determined by pressure groups lobbying - not the electorate

You really have no idea how government policy is formulated. This is ignorance and a fairly typical tabloid viewpoint.

On current evidence: incompetently

[V8 Fettler]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

And because I can't find a more recent article I have borrowed some of your Old Newspapers :


From 2014 :

"Gas company special payments dwarf constraint payments to windfarms"


National Grid makes figures public for first time as government considers cutting windfarm subsidies before election. National Grid made special payments of £300m over the last 12 months to big energy companies – sometimes for switching off their power stations in an attempt to "balance" the system.

The huge payout dwarfs the £37m paid to windfarms to remain offline over the same period to the end of February – a figure used by critics to question the advisability of supporting renewable energy.




So bizarrely - for you - an utter non fking story ?

Why does the grid become unbalanced? Could it be due to the use of unreliables?

[Rovinghawk]

MYOB said:

You really have no idea how government policy is formulated.

I think it varies according to which way the wind blows.

[Wayoftheflower]

Toltec said:

Ali G said:

s on nuclear...

http://m.greenpeace.org/international/en/high/camp...

greenpeas said:

Greenpeace opposes nuclear power because it is dangerous, polluting, expensive and non-renewable.

And governmental policy is determined by pressure groups lobbying - not the electorate

They do realise what solar power comes from and for that matter wind?

fkwits

Earth based fission is a little bit different to fusion 150,000,000km away.

I don't think Greenpeace object to earth based fusion except for thinking the money could be better spent elsewhere. Which I don't think is a good attitude but at least it's honest.

[MYOB]

LongQ said:

MYOB said:

Ali G said:

And governmental policy is determined by pressure groups lobbying - not the electorate

You really have no idea how government policy is formulated. This is ignorance and a fairly typical tabloid viewpoint.

I for one am more than interested to discover the secret if you can share it.

For example the then Bryony Worthington and the 2008 Climate Change Act. That seems like a good place to start.

So how was that chunk of policy formulated?

Can't answer that question, I wasn't involved in that policy area.

[turbobloke]

MYOB said:

LongQ said:

MYOB said:

Ali G said:

And governmental policy is determined by pressure groups lobbying - not the electorate

You really have no idea how government policy is formulated. This is ignorance and a fairly typical tabloid viewpoint.

I for one am more than interested to discover the secret if you can share it.

For example the then Bryony Worthington and the 2008 Climate Change Act. That seems like a good place to start.

So how was that chunk of policy formulated?

Can't answer that question, I wasn't involved in that policy area.

In which case somebody might ask about the basis for your 'tabloid viewpoint' smear when just about the most ludicrious piece of legislation formulated in living memory came about by a route you dismissed.

You confess you're unaware that the then Labour government invited Baroness Worthington, as she now is (Labour peer) - an English graduate and Fiends of the Earth pressure group climate activist - to be the lead author and chief architect of the pointless and nonsensical Climate Change Act.

She wasn't chosen by the random drawing of lots, though that method may well have resulted in somebody equally unsuitable.

[MYOB]

turbobloke said:

In which case somebody might ask about the basis for your 'tabloid viewpoint' smear when just about the most ludicrious piece of legislation formulated in living memory came about by a route you dismissed.

You confess you're unaware that the then Labour government invited Baroness Worthington, as she now is (Labour peer) - an English graduate and Fiends of the Earth pressure group climate activist - to be the lead author and chief architect of the pointless and nonsensical Climate Change Act.

She wasn't chosen by the random drawing of lots, though that method may well have resulted in somebody equally unsuitable.

Hold on. You're all over the place. I made a comment in response to your claims on how policy is formulated.

Now you're waffling on about legislation?

I would suggest you go away and educate yourself. Do you really believe one person can be a "lead author" of an Act? A whole army of civil servants, lawyers, MPs, lords and so on are involved in the drafting of Bills. There is no "lead author".

Stop reading the red tops.