Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
Murph7355 said:
BigMon said:
Yep, Rayner needs to be one of the next to go I reckon. Hopefully Starmer is working behind the scenes to winkle her and others like her out.
I agree.He has a few years yet..and some of the ones he has left will take that long to weed out I reckon.
His problem is that in that time he also needs to start building policies that the people around him can support and explain to people.
2024 suddenly doesn't seem far enough away I imagine.
Murph7355 said:
fblm said:
Has Starmer had anything to say about McCluskey's comments about Mandelson yet?
The "gold" reference?If so, am not sure that was as heinous as is being made out (and trust me, I think McCluskey is a ringpiece).
fblm said:
Murph7355 said:
fblm said:
Has Starmer had anything to say about McCluskey's comments about Mandelson yet?
The "gold" reference?If so, am not sure that was as heinous as is being made out (and trust me, I think McCluskey is a ringpiece).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xnzPnyyWbY
fblm said:
Murph7355 said:
fblm said:
Has Starmer had anything to say about McCluskey's comments about Mandelson yet?
The "gold" reference?If so, am not sure that was as heinous as is being made out (and trust me, I think McCluskey is a ringpiece).
Maybe it was intended as an anti-Semitic dig. It didn't seem to be to me and I do think we all need to be careful before getting hot under the collar about such things (on any "prejudice" angle). But who knows.
There's no chance Starmer will be having an outright pop at the unions just yet.
Murph7355 said:
fblm said:
Murph7355 said:
fblm said:
Has Starmer had anything to say about McCluskey's comments about Mandelson yet?
The "gold" reference?If so, am not sure that was as heinous as is being made out (and trust me, I think McCluskey is a ringpiece).
Maybe it was intended as an anti-Semitic dig. It didn't seem to be to me and I do think we all need to be careful before getting hot under the collar about such things (on any "prejudice" angle). But who knows.
There's no chance Starmer will be having an outright pop at the unions just yet.
Murph7355 said:
fblm said:
Murph7355 said:
fblm said:
Has Starmer had anything to say about McCluskey's comments about Mandelson yet?
The "gold" reference?If so, am not sure that was as heinous as is being made out (and trust me, I think McCluskey is a ringpiece).
Maybe it was intended as an anti-Semitic dig. It didn't seem to be to me and I do think we all need to be careful before getting hot under the collar about such things (on any "prejudice" angle). But who knows.
There's no chance Starmer will be having an outright pop at the unions just yet.
Which is entirely the point of 'dog whistle politics', whereby a racist statement can hide in plain sight and be appologised for as 'clumsy language' by the perpetrator and their acolytes.
jakesmith said:
But it is a common and historic antisemitic trope so why say it at all? It's hardly a common phrase outside of being a bit racist is it, go count your gold. The chances of McLusky not knowing this are approximately zero percent. No different to Katie Hopkins talking about needing 'a final solution' for immigrants. They know exactly what they are saying.
Which is entirely the point of 'dog whistle politics', whereby a racist statement can hide in plain sight and be appologised for as 'clumsy language' by the perpetrator and their acolytes.
Counting gold is not at all comparable to final solution.Which is entirely the point of 'dog whistle politics', whereby a racist statement can hide in plain sight and be appologised for as 'clumsy language' by the perpetrator and their acolytes.
I’ve never heard about the phrase counting gold being anti Semitic. Most people know the links between final solution and the Holocaust.
If you google the phrase, you just get loads of links to the story of McCluskey saying it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/len...
McCluskey said:
: “I stopped listening to anything Peter Mandelson says years ago.
“I would suggest Peter goes into a room and counts his gold and not worry about the Labour Party. Leave that to those of us who are interested in ordinary working people.”
This isn’t anti Semitic at all. “I would suggest Peter goes into a room and counts his gold and not worry about the Labour Party. Leave that to those of us who are interested in ordinary working people.”
El stovey said:
This isn’t anti Semitic at all.
Jewish people must be the only minority group in the present day, to be gaslighted in this way & told that what just offended them, was not actually offensive. Maybe your opinion on what is & isn't racist, is as definitive as you think? Do you think there is any prospect of getting to be the head of an organisation as political as Unite, without knowing exactly what you are saying and how it could be taken?
Mandleson is reasonably well known for comments he made about being proud of his Jewish family connection.
jakesmith said:
El stovey said:
This isn’t anti Semitic at all.
Jewish people must be the only minority group in the present day, to be gaslighted in this way & told that what just offended them, was not actually offensive. Maybe your opinion on what is & isn't racist, is as definitive as you think? Do you think there is any prospect of getting to be the head of an organisation as political as Unite, without knowing exactly what you are saying and how it could be taken?
Mandleson is reasonably well known for comments he made about being proud of his Jewish family connection.
A Winner Is You said:
jakesmith said:
El stovey said:
This isn’t anti Semitic at all.
Jewish people must be the only minority group in the present day, to be gaslighted in this way & told that what just offended them, was not actually offensive. Maybe your opinion on what is & isn't racist, is as definitive as you think? Do you think there is any prospect of getting to be the head of an organisation as political as Unite, without knowing exactly what you are saying and how it could be taken?
Mandleson is reasonably well known for comments he made about being proud of his Jewish family connection.
I’m not on the left, I’ve never voted labour in my life and think McCluskey is a moron.
Telling someone to count their gold isn’t anti semitic
Telling someone who isn’t Jewish to count their gold isn’t anti Semitic either
Do you think it’s anti Semitic?
Stop looking to be offended.
Murph7355 said:
From the clip I saw it seemed more a dig at Peter Mandelson to me, and McCluskey noting he doesn't give a toss about what PM thinks of him.
Maybe it was intended as an anti-Semitic dig. It didn't seem to be to me and I do think we all need to be careful before getting hot under the collar about such things (on any "prejudice" angle). But who knows.
There's no chance Starmer will be having an outright pop at the unions just yet.
Maybe it was intended as an anti-Semitic dig. It didn't seem to be to me and I do think we all need to be careful before getting hot under the collar about such things (on any "prejudice" angle). But who knows.
There's no chance Starmer will be having an outright pop at the unions just yet.
Murph7355 said:
The "gold" reference?
If so, am not sure that was as heinous as is being made out (and trust me, I think McCluskey is a ringpiece).
If so, am not sure that was as heinous as is being made out (and trust me, I think McCluskey is a ringpiece).
SpeckledJim said:
Getting a bit silly now. Mandelson isn't Jewish, but is wealthy, so a (distasteful, admittedly) reference to his gold is a stretch to call anti-semitic, IMO.
Are these guys on the left too? Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 22 October 13:24
El stovey said:
A Winner Is You said:
jakesmith said:
El stovey said:
This isn’t anti Semitic at all.
Jewish people must be the only minority group in the present day, to be gaslighted in this way & told that what just offended them, was not actually offensive. Maybe your opinion on what is & isn't racist, is as definitive as you think? Do you think there is any prospect of getting to be the head of an organisation as political as Unite, without knowing exactly what you are saying and how it could be taken?
Mandleson is reasonably well known for comments he made about being proud of his Jewish family connection.
I’m not on the left, I’ve never voted labour in my life and think McCluskey is a moron.
Telling someone to count their gold isn’t anti semitic
Telling someone who isn’t Jewish to count their gold isn’t anti Semitic either
Do you think it’s anti Semitic?
Stop looking to be offended.
Gold is a redundant method of holding wealth for almost all individuals. It is hardly a common phrase in this day and age is it, there goes El Stovey in his new M3, he must have a lot of gold. I had a good month plastering last month, let me count my gold. When did you last see it written or used in normal life? It is a historical term that has historical connotations to do with the alienation of Jewish people by mischaracterising them as being unhealthily obsessed with the accumulation of capital (which was successful propaganda & is why the left have such a problem with Jews)
It seemed to upset Mike Katz, head of Jewish Labour. Why not Private Message him and tell him he is wrong.
jakesmith said:
I see you have decided not to respond to the point about how McLusky, being the leader of Unite, is certain to be aware of the connotation of his words and how they can be interpreted. Is it remotely possible that you are unaware of this trope which is why you are defending it's usage?
Gold is a redundant method of holding wealth for almost all individuals. It is hardly a common phrase in this day and age is it, there goes El Stovey in his new M3, he must have a lot of gold. I had a good month plastering last month, let me count my gold. When did you last see it written or used in normal life? It is a historical term that has historical connotations to do with the alienation of Jewish people by mischaracterising them as being unhealthily obsessed with the accumulation of capital (which was successful propaganda & is why the left have such a problem with Jews)
It seemed to upset Mike Katz, head of Jewish Labour. Why not Private Message him and tell him he is wrong.
Mike Katz isn’t here complaining about it, why on earth would I PM someone not here?Gold is a redundant method of holding wealth for almost all individuals. It is hardly a common phrase in this day and age is it, there goes El Stovey in his new M3, he must have a lot of gold. I had a good month plastering last month, let me count my gold. When did you last see it written or used in normal life? It is a historical term that has historical connotations to do with the alienation of Jewish people by mischaracterising them as being unhealthily obsessed with the accumulation of capital (which was successful propaganda & is why the left have such a problem with Jews)
It seemed to upset Mike Katz, head of Jewish Labour. Why not Private Message him and tell him he is wrong.
Why should McCluskey know it’s an anti Semitic term? Is it an anti Semitic term?
Do you honestly think McCluskey was being anti Semitic when using this term?
Mandelson apparently isn’t even Jewish.
If he’d said go count your money or go count your diamonds would you be saying that’s anti Semitic or is it just gold?
Isn’t McCluskey actually saying Mandelson is some rich bloke that doesn’t have a clue about the issues McCluskey was discussing.
“I would suggest Peter goes into a room and counts his gold and not worry about the Labour Party. Leave that to those of us who are interested in ordinary working people.”
He’s using gold (or wealth) to say Mandelson is detached from what he thinks are ordinary working people.
If go count your gold is a known anti Semitic phrase or has anti Semitic connotations then there’s no reference to it anywhere online I looked. Looks much more like people are using their religion to tar McCluskey as some kind of -ist.
El stovey said:
...
I’ve never heard about the phrase counting gold being anti Semitic.
...
It is. Stop saying it isn't. You may not have known that. You do now. For hundreds of years, the imagery of ''jews hoarding gold'' or Jewish money lenders, bankers and thieves jealously guarding and counting their gold has pervaded western culture and art. It's not my (or your) place to say what does and doesn't offend other people but...I’ve never heard about the phrase counting gold being anti Semitic.
...
Chair of Jewish Labour said ''Stay classy, Len... Pretty disgusted by his language..."
Dame Hodge “The ignorance with which these tropes are used by McCluskey and others shows just how pervasive and unchallenged antisemitism is on the Hard Left.”
Euan Philipps, Labour Against Antisemitism; "It is unsurprising but still shocking to hear one of the most senior figures in the British Labour movement seemingly reveal such a poisonous view... Over the last four years Mr McCluskey has at times appeared to dismiss antisemitism in the Labour Party, describing it as 'mood music' but this is the first time he has made such a seemingly antisemitic comment himself."
President of the Board of Deputies British Jews Marie van der Zyl; “We are deeply concerned that the leader of one of the most powerful Trade Unions in this country would go on television and use an antisemitic trope dating back to medieval times."
Starmer;
You brought it up, nobody else thinks it’s anti Semitic except one poster. Who like you is looking for it too much.
This kind of looking for anti Semitism, to score political points undermines genuine examples of it.
You’re only reason for doing it is to try and make Starmer look bad.
This kind of looking for anti Semitism, to score political points undermines genuine examples of it.
You’re only reason for doing it is to try and make Starmer look bad.
El stovey said:
Why should McCluskey know it’s an anti Semitic term? Is it an anti Semitic term?
Maybe because he's spent the last few years telling anyone who'll listen that Labour isn't antisemitic, rowing in public with Jews and threatening to pull funding over Labour paying damages to antisemitism whistleblowers?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff