Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
George111 said:
Type R Tom said:
George111 said:
The much lauded Dutch system means cyclists are legally required to use the cycle lanes on major roads, not the roads. They have a far more adult approach to cycling than we do - it's taken far more seriously. They Lycra clad brigade you see in London would soon find themselves on the sharp end of a ticket if they rode like that in Amsterdam.
Have a look here: http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safet...
They also have strict liability, in crashes involving vulnerable road users, unless it can be clearly proven that the vulnerable road user was at fault, the more powerful road user is found liable by default.Have a look here: http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safet...
I assume you want that too?
yonex said:
It's not. Not at all. The thing about the Dutch system is that everyone abides by the rules. The UK is too stupid to function in this way.
Trust me, that is not a nation of rocket scientists! They obey more because it is in their nature to follow orders combined with their only being about 7 of them and they all know where each other lives.The true reality is that population density plays an extremely significant role here. Shift the bulk of London's economic migrants back out and the civility will return rather rapidly, not because these are uncivilised people but that the more people you cram into a small space the more the crowd mentality changes. It's why the Victorians invented all their whacky rules and social regs that we have taken great delight in discarding.
Type R Tom said:
George111 said:
The much lauded Dutch system means cyclists are legally required to use the cycle lanes on major roads, not the roads. They have a far more adult approach to cycling than we do - it's taken far more seriously. They Lycra clad brigade you see in London would soon find themselves on the sharp end of a ticket if they rode like that in Amsterdam.
Have a look here: http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safet...
They also have strict liability, in crashes involving vulnerable road users, unless it can be clearly proven that the vulnerable road user was at fault, the more powerful road user is found liable by default.Have a look here: http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safet...
I assume you want that too?
Lots of them appreciated the '67 Mustang we were driving though 
Digby said:
Cyclist has higher IQ...
...rides on dangerous streets, exposed to all the elements, breathing in carcinogenic fumes by the bucket load whilst declaring it's for fitness.
Where's your sense of adventure? Having near-death experiences every day really puts things in perspective ...rides on dangerous streets, exposed to all the elements, breathing in carcinogenic fumes by the bucket load whilst declaring it's for fitness.
(I run more than cycle and try to stay offroad as it's so much more interesting)Digby said:
Just seeing how many fish I could catch 
Bit early to admit that...Anyway, the higher IQ claims are spurious even if true. And as others have said, high IQ does not imply better decision-making. I went to Uni with a lot of very high IQ people, many of whom you wouldn't trust to cross a road safely!
Digby said:
Cyclist has higher IQ...
...rides on dangerous streets, exposed to all the elements, breathing in carcinogenic fumes by the bucket load whilst declaring it's for fitness.
Well if we're talking about IQ's I can guarantee that there's not many Mensa candidates riding quad bikes on the road ...rides on dangerous streets, exposed to all the elements, breathing in carcinogenic fumes by the bucket load whilst declaring it's for fitness.
DonkeyApple said:
The true reality is that population density plays an extremely significant role here.
The Randstad is a fairly busy place, one of the largest metropolitan areas in Europe, population of 7 million etc. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstadwalm said:
spaximus said:
So other roads users see specific routes created, eating into the normal road space, then not used by those it was created for, which does create friction.
A football club build a brand new stand. It's got better seats but it costs 3x as much as the regular seats so none of the fans ever use that new stand...And that is the fault of the FANS?
Isn't it perhaps the fault of the people who built the new facilities?
Near me we have the A38 between Bristol and Gloucester, this was an NSL for most of the way and then a wide area was marked as a cycle path on both sides. The effect was to push cars into the centre of the road, which after an odd accident was reason to reduce huge lengths to 40 and 50 mph. With the exceptions of weekends there are hardly ever cycles on it. As far as I could see and I cycle on that road, there was never a need for them in the first place. People who cannot see a bike, will miss the lines and the bike.
But as I said there are bad drivers and bad cyclists, what seems to have changed is the vocal nature of cyclists where, especially if equipped with a camera, you must shout, swear and belittle people some of whom made small errors, not deliberately tried to kill the cyclist.
yonex said:
George111 said:
Type R Tom said:
George111 said:
The much lauded Dutch system means cyclists are legally required to use the cycle lanes on major roads, not the roads. They have a far more adult approach to cycling than we do - it's taken far more seriously. They Lycra clad brigade you see in London would soon find themselves on the sharp end of a ticket if they rode like that in Amsterdam.
Have a look here: http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safet...
They also have strict liability, in crashes involving vulnerable road users, unless it can be clearly proven that the vulnerable road user was at fault, the more powerful road user is found liable by default.Have a look here: http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safet...
I assume you want that too?
George111 said:
The much lauded Dutch system means cyclists are legally required to use the cycle lanes on major roads, not the roads. They have a far more adult approach to cycling than we do - it's taken far more seriously. They Lycra clad brigade you see in London would soon find themselves on the sharp end of a ticket if they rode like that in Amsterdam.
Have a look here: http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safet...
If you drove on the left hand side of the road in Holland, you'd get a ticket too....Have a look here: http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safet...
80sMatchbox said:
George111 said:
The much lauded Dutch system means cyclists are legally required to use the cycle lanes on major roads, not the roads. They have a far more adult approach to cycling than we do - it's taken far more seriously. They Lycra clad brigade you see in London would soon find themselves on the sharp end of a ticket if they rode like that in Amsterdam.
Have a look here: http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safet...
If you drove on the left hand side of the road in Holland, you'd get a ticket too....Have a look here: http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safet...
WinstonWolf said:
Negative Creep said:
Wish we'd follow Holland's lead and ban flashing lights on bikes. Had some idiot behind me recently with what can only be described as a strobe light, and it's seriously distracting
Cyclists, get some lights.Cyclists fit lights.
Bloody cyclists and their lights...
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