The Irish border
Discussion
Mrr T said:
The Surveyor said:
Also, how can Barnier insist that Northern Ireland stays in the EU when it's part of the country who is leaving the EU. He's demented if he thinks that's a workable solution?
Barnier is not insisting, the proposal is from the Council.Ireland will not be part of the EU but will maintain regulatory and customs alignment.
........
Worth a read: Barnier's speech on the Eu's position.
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-18-362...
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-18-362...
Mrr T said:
SpeckledJim said:
Tuna said:
Mrr T said:
Meanwhile in the real world Barnier is confirming the UK must present a workable solution for Ireland or accept the EU fall back of a water border or the transition deal cannot proceed.
The 'real world'?! Barnier: "You must present a workable solution, or we will enforce an unworkable solution". Brilliant.RoI says no? s
tstorm.RoI says yes? Different s
tstorm.It's within the EU's own rules for NI to leave the EU, and the situation in Ireland was no secret when the EU's rules allowing NI to leave were drawn-up, by the EU.
A50 could easily have said something like "If the UK of GB & NI enact A50, then the GFA and CTA will no longer apply and a formal border will be established between NI and ROI."
Then the UK could have decided whether to sign it or not.
Instead the EU chose not to address it at all, thus leaving a battle of 'your rules vs our rules' and leaving any solution potentially up for grabs.
This is a shared problem.
The EU is not telling the ROI to put up a border. The ROI has adopted into its laws the many directives/regulations on the SM and the CU.
The ROI government oddly enough accepts it needs to follow its own laws.
The EU has not changed it laws at all it’s the UK which is leaving the EU and has also chosen to leave the SM and the CU meaning a border for goods is required.
The problem is caused by decision made by the UK. The EU therefore expects the UK to have a solution. I mean surely before the UK announced it would leave the SM and CU it must have had a solution.
If the U.K. holds firm in no hard border and Varadker follows his puppet masters in Brussels and erects a border fence “ To protect the EU land border” then he is finished
Tuna said:
Gloria Slap said:
It seems like May prefers the “hybrid customs we’ll collect your tariffs and pay you EU” option. This annoys brexiteers whi consider it unicorn like.
Hopefully we'll find out what she 'prefers' today.It annoys me because it's an unholy mess that is being pushed by people who appear to want the security blanket of something with "customs" and a synonym for "union" in the title. In practise it falls in the "worst possible compromise" camp by both hampering our trade policy and tying us to EU oversight in the name of 'protecting' existing trade.
Either "customs partnership is dead", so it's the unicorn technology.
Or "both options not viable and need more work".
Err, time is ticking a bit. Presumably they are recruiting turd polishers to get their proposals up to scratch? Perhaps roll them in a bit of glitter?
"Utter shambles." How bad is the govt when you agree with Nicola S?
davepoth said:
Guido is suggesting it split 6-5 against the partnership, with Javid being the deciding vote. Worked out quite nice in the end then.
Perhaps Javid is pushing the "maximum facilitation" option - a technology fantasy that the EU is already dismissing - as an unworkable option it is more likely to trigger a check vote and a remain victory. He is a remainer after all. Meanwhile, Patton: Brexiters in his party are “playing with fire” and pursuing a policy in Northern Ireland “that is sometimes clueless, and sometimes delinquent". Great stuff!
Gloria Slap said:
davepoth said:
Guido is suggesting it split 6-5 against the partnership, with Javid being the deciding vote. Worked out quite nice in the end then.
Perhaps Javid is pushing the "maximum facilitation" option - a technology fantasy that the EU is already dismissing - as an unworkable option it is more likely to trigger a check vote and a remain victory. He is a remainer after all. Meanwhile, Patton: Brexiters in his party are “playing with fire” and pursuing a policy in Northern Ireland “that is sometimes clueless, and sometimes delinquent". Great stuff!
While Javid voted remain he's no great fan of the EU, and has adopted a pragmatic attitude to the current situation. You might say that he got on the bus.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/988087920451...
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/988088085345...
Gloria Slap said:
Perhaps Javid is pushing the "maximum facilitation" option - a technology fantasy that the EU is already dismissing - as an unworkable option it is more likely to trigger a check vote and a remain victory. He is a remainer after all.
Meanwhile, Patton: Brexiters in his party are “playing with fire” and pursuing a policy in Northern Ireland “that is sometimes clueless, and sometimes delinquent". Great stuff!
Meanwhile, Patton: Brexiters in his party are “playing with fire” and pursuing a policy in Northern Ireland “that is sometimes clueless, and sometimes delinquent". Great stuff!
Adonis hasn't stopped crying since seeing the dream get roundly defeated.
Any arrangement that sees the EU able to interfere in non-EU trade deals with the UK will be poison for the Tories, and rightly so. I wouldn't put it past May and her advisors not to recognise this, but she needs to get to grips with that quickly.
No issue at all with us "facilitating" the EU if that means other countries not being able to use a deal with us as a back door to the EU. So, for example, collecting tariffs for goods intended for the EU. This is what I believe was described pre-Christmas. But anything materially invasive is a no go.
Standards? For goods and services going to the EU no problem. Otherwise that should also be a "it's up to us".
The Irish border issue will get resolved next March. As I've mentioned before, if we offered 10bn a year to the EU the Irish border "issue" would be no issue at all. It has nothing to do with "practicalities".
No issue at all with us "facilitating" the EU if that means other countries not being able to use a deal with us as a back door to the EU. So, for example, collecting tariffs for goods intended for the EU. This is what I believe was described pre-Christmas. But anything materially invasive is a no go.
Standards? For goods and services going to the EU no problem. Otherwise that should also be a "it's up to us".
The Irish border issue will get resolved next March. As I've mentioned before, if we offered 10bn a year to the EU the Irish border "issue" would be no issue at all. It has nothing to do with "practicalities".
This is spot on (from a Remain supporter)
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/jacob-rees-m...
Leave the EU without a deal, stop Brexit entirely or negotiate a comprehensive FTA. Just don't end up in the worst of all worlds as a virtual vassal state from the rather feeble excuse of there being a land border with the EU.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/jacob-rees-m...
Leave the EU without a deal, stop Brexit entirely or negotiate a comprehensive FTA. Just don't end up in the worst of all worlds as a virtual vassal state from the rather feeble excuse of there being a land border with the EU.
So you want to apply for a job in the new Border Force?
So it was previously you had to have a British passport, but that was considered discriminatory, so now it can also be an Irish passport.
If you are from outside NI you must have either 2 A-levels, or Border Force experience, or have served in the police or armed forces.
But if you are from NI, you must have the two A-levels
because Border Force experience, or having served in the police or armed forces criteria is not justified as Catholic people in NI's community experience in those areas was "considerably smaller than the proportion of the Protestant community".
Good to see that in NI educational attainment takes precedence over having once worn a uniform
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northe...
So it was previously you had to have a British passport, but that was considered discriminatory, so now it can also be an Irish passport.
If you are from outside NI you must have either 2 A-levels, or Border Force experience, or have served in the police or armed forces.
But if you are from NI, you must have the two A-levels
because Border Force experience, or having served in the police or armed forces criteria is not justified as Catholic people in NI's community experience in those areas was "considerably smaller than the proportion of the Protestant community".
Good to see that in NI educational attainment takes precedence over having once worn a uniform
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northe...
JuniorD said:
So you want to apply for a job in the new Border Force?
So it was previously you had to have a British passport, but that was considered discriminatory, so now it can also be an Irish passport.
If you are from outside NI you must have either 2 A-levels, or Border Force experience, or have served in the police or armed forces.
But if you are from NI, you must have the two A-levels
because Border Force experience, or having served in the police or armed forces criteria is not justified as Catholic people in NI's community experience in those areas was "considerably smaller than the proportion of the Protestant community".
Good to see that in NI educational attainment takes precedence over having once worn a uniform
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northe...
i like that approach. pity the police didn't take it in the past. the only two police officers i had problems with in the past were ex army. having friends both serving and ex forces i strongly suspect the two i encountered were sSo it was previously you had to have a British passport, but that was considered discriminatory, so now it can also be an Irish passport.
If you are from outside NI you must have either 2 A-levels, or Border Force experience, or have served in the police or armed forces.
But if you are from NI, you must have the two A-levels
because Border Force experience, or having served in the police or armed forces criteria is not justified as Catholic people in NI's community experience in those areas was "considerably smaller than the proportion of the Protestant community".
Good to see that in NI educational attainment takes precedence over having once worn a uniform
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northe...
t at their jobs in the army as well.EU insiders say Northern Ireland 'could be new Hong Kong'
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-i...
Economically this could be an amazing idea, but the DUP would never buy into it.
Worse still, loyalists would be up in arms at the thoughts of the influx of little yellow foreign folk running about the place
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-i...
Economically this could be an amazing idea, but the DUP would never buy into it.
Worse still, loyalists would be up in arms at the thoughts of the influx of little yellow foreign folk running about the place
Murph7355 said:
Any arrangement that sees the EU able to interfere in non-EU trade deals with the UK will be poison for the Tories, and rightly so. I wouldn't put it past May and her advisors not to recognise this, but she needs to get to grips with that quickly.
No issue at all with us "facilitating" the EU if that means other countries not being able to use a deal with us as a back door to the EU. So, for example, collecting tariffs for goods intended for the EU. This is what I believe was described pre-Christmas. But anything materially invasive is a no go.
Standards? For goods and services going to the EU no problem. Otherwise that should also be a "it's up to us".
The Irish border issue will get resolved next March. As I've mentioned before, if we offered 10bn a year to the EU the Irish border "issue" would be no issue at all. It has nothing to do with "practicalities".
I don't understand what brexit is for if it's not going to include freedom to make bilateral trade agreements; the standards argument is so much hot air, as whatever form of FTA is arranged manufacturers and service providers will be required to meet EU standards to sell into the EU and most EU standards are just slightly edited international standards anyway which we'll have to abide by, but being outside the EU we would have direct representation on those international standard bodies rather than as one of 27 voices talking over the shoulder of the EU's representative.No issue at all with us "facilitating" the EU if that means other countries not being able to use a deal with us as a back door to the EU. So, for example, collecting tariffs for goods intended for the EU. This is what I believe was described pre-Christmas. But anything materially invasive is a no go.
Standards? For goods and services going to the EU no problem. Otherwise that should also be a "it's up to us".
The Irish border issue will get resolved next March. As I've mentioned before, if we offered 10bn a year to the EU the Irish border "issue" would be no issue at all. It has nothing to do with "practicalities".
I see the Irish Foreign Minister says that the agreement in November means no cameras, scanning equipment or any other infrastructure on the border.
Clearly they are trying to push the UK into remaining in the Customs Union.
Nevertheless, I raised the point previously that, in Africa, this is done by satellite comms, so is that the answer?
Trusted trade lorries with satellite tracking for the major stuff. All the small stuff is exempt as allowed under WTO regs?
DMN said:
Both sides oppose any border...there is no chance we will put one in place, so the question is more whether he is lying and would put one in in the event of no agreement.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff