CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)
Discussion
Coolbananas said:
Kudos to you for at least trying - but then unlike a great many, you aren't mentally retarded in some way. The pig ignorant morons who insist that the wearing of a mask is pointless when everyone buys into it and wears them need to be forced to do so and it does look like that will actually happen; it's the only way in the UK given how many stupid people there are who insist upon being d
heads. Every country has problem areas in dealing with this, most only have the youth to educate, the UK has people of all ages to educate and ultimately force to comply.
It is an absolute fact, indeed it is blindingly obvious to all but the most dedicated nut-job, that if everyone wears a mask the risk of spread is reduced. Not eliminated, obviously (duh, morons
) but reduced - and even that varies from situation to situation and environment to environment. But in 'real-World' conditions it does reduce the spread of droplets to varying degrees and therefore, logically, risk due to close proximity encounters is reduced and any reduction in possible infection spread should be welcomed and encouraged.
Anyway, hope everyone is enjoying Summer, it's wonderful so far.
He’s back!heads. Every country has problem areas in dealing with this, most only have the youth to educate, the UK has people of all ages to educate and ultimately force to comply. It is an absolute fact, indeed it is blindingly obvious to all but the most dedicated nut-job, that if everyone wears a mask the risk of spread is reduced. Not eliminated, obviously (duh, morons
) but reduced - and even that varies from situation to situation and environment to environment. But in 'real-World' conditions it does reduce the spread of droplets to varying degrees and therefore, logically, risk due to close proximity encounters is reduced and any reduction in possible infection spread should be welcomed and encouraged. Anyway, hope everyone is enjoying Summer, it's wonderful so far.
We thought you might have succumbed to Portugals rising cases. Not as bad as South Africa I guess
grumbledoak said:
Most people have had time to lose four stone in lockdown, if the government gave two craps and explained it. They won't.
It's worth remembering that we were pretty thin in the seventies, and what happened around 1980 that changed.
Absolute shambles. It should have been the main point from the start. People are terrified but aren’t the doing the one simple thing that will actually save their lives.It's worth remembering that we were pretty thin in the seventies, and what happened around 1980 that changed.
I don’t like the idea of wearing a mask, and I’ve seen plenty of reasons why it’s not worth it, but this does seem to make a pretty good case for it (unfortunately).
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
easyhome said:
I don’t like the idea of wearing a mask, and I’ve seen plenty of reasons why it’s not worth it, but this does seem to make a pretty good case for it (unfortunately).
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
Speaking as someone who detests masks, it is very hard to disagree with that.https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
TheJimi said:
easyhome said:
I don’t like the idea of wearing a mask, and I’ve seen plenty of reasons why it’s not worth it, but this does seem to make a pretty good case for it (unfortunately).
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
Speaking as someone who detests masks, it is very hard to disagree with that.https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
easyhome said:
I don’t like the idea of wearing a mask, and I’ve seen plenty of reasons why it’s not worth it, but this does seem to make a pretty good case for it (unfortunately).
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
Really? Petulant whining from someone trying to make others as scared as he is. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
ORD said:
Really? Petulant whining from someone trying to make others as scared as he is.
SHE is a Oxford educated doctor with a very impressive CV and author of over 200 peer-reviewed articles. Before accusing someone of 'petulant whining' you could at least bother to find out who they are and what their background is.
Unless of course you also have received an OBE for 'services to evidence based medicine'? No... Didn't think so.
ORD said:
easyhome said:
I don’t like the idea of wearing a mask, and I’ve seen plenty of reasons why it’s not worth it, but this does seem to make a pretty good case for it (unfortunately).
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
Really? Petulant whining from someone trying to make others as scared as he is. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
dave_s13 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
dave_s13 said:
I've just switched on to watch the formula 1 highlights on Ch 4.. and turned it straight back off again. I can't bring myself to watch all and sundry talking to camera with masks on, it's just fking ridiculous.
Glad someone else thinks that too. I watch F1 for a bit of escapism - I'm not interested in how virtuous they all are bending over backwards to put their masks on for the cameras.king ridiculous.And we can see here, as soon as the cameras are off, so are the masks.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/07/04/fia-forc...
t. I bet everyone in the f1 circus is being tested and quarantined as a precaution.It's really quite disturbing as they are portraying this as being normal and it f
king isn't. I do not want to wear a mask at any time.ORD said:
TheJimi said:
Sorry dude, but you're making yourself look a bit silly here.
Read it. It’s a dog st piece of work. Otherwise I'll believe the GP, researcher, published author, and someone with good academic credentials than some bloke on the internet saying 'Its dog s
t' without even bothering to explain why. You are making yourself look like a t
t, but please do carry on. ORD said:
TheJimi said:
Sorry dude, but you're making yourself look a bit silly here.
Read it. It’s a dog st piece of work. I disagree that it's a dog s
t piece of work, and I disagree that it's petulant whining....and this is coming from someone who doesn't like masks and is dubious about their efficacy in this context. (Edit: efficiency is the wrong word to use here. I mean dubious about the Scottish implementation)
She presents the case well, and as I say, I find it hard to disagree with her conclusion again, even though I detest the f
king things.Edited by TheJimi on Saturday 11th July 22:31
TheJimi said:
I've read it.
I disagree that it's a dog st piece of work, and I disagree that it's petulant whining.
...and this is coming from someone who doesn't like masks and is dubious about their efficacy in this context.
She presents the case well, and as I say, I find it hard to disagree with her conclusion again, even though I detest the fking things.
How about this bit?I disagree that it's a dog s
t piece of work, and I disagree that it's petulant whining....and this is coming from someone who doesn't like masks and is dubious about their efficacy in this context.
She presents the case well, and as I say, I find it hard to disagree with her conclusion again, even though I detest the f
king things.‘The relentless, day on day stories of avoidable deaths from this dreadful disease sicken me. I will do whatever I can, as an academic, a doctor and a citizen, to reduce that death toll and help get society back running again.’
Strike you as someone who is coming to this with an appropriately cool head and caution?
‘Do whatever I can’ is a flashing red light that monomania has taken hold.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I agree. It's a tit-for-tat piece with someone who had replied to her original paper. The story about the asymptotic man with a mask not causing an outbreak is particularly weak - as if every other asymptotic person has caused an outbreak.Deaths have peaked and declined to near zero without masks. Arguing that they are necessary now is quite an extraordinary claim and should require some pretty extraordinary proof.
grumbledoak said:
Deaths have peaked and declined to near zero without masks. Arguing that they are necessary now is quite an extraordinary claim and should require some pretty extraordinary proof.
Basically this. Masks - required when R is < 1 with low cases but not when R was 3 and there was an urgent need to lower case numbers? If major routes of transmission have been shown to be in shops/transport rather than superspreading type events, one could perhaps make the argument it's necessary to order mask wearing but that absolutely has not been the case as we have reduced cases to current numbers without the bloody things. It's completely nonsensical to be moving towards requiring them now.grumbledoak said:
I agree. It's a tit-for-tat piece with someone who had replied to her original paper. The story about the asymptotic man with a mask not causing an outbreak is particularly weak - as if every other asymptotic person has caused an outbreak.
Deaths have peaked and declined to near zero without masks. Arguing that they are necessary now is quite an extraordinary claim and should require some pretty extraordinary proof.
The argument isn't that they are necessary now, but that they are likely to help prevent transmission. It's hardly an 'extraordinary claim' and neither does it require 'extraordinary proof', beyond 'normal proof'. If we had been wearing masks from day 1, our fatality rate may have been lower and the restrictions relaxed sooner, you cannot claim that is not possible without some proof in the same way she cannot claim that they are useful without proof. What she is attempting to do is show (using the data available) that they are useful. Deaths have peaked and declined to near zero without masks. Arguing that they are necessary now is quite an extraordinary claim and should require some pretty extraordinary proof.
I do find it amazing that random people, probably IT managers or similar, can claim to know better than someone who has an OBE for services to evidence based science, is a fellow at Oxford, and a practicing GP. This place is unbelievable at times.
MaxFromage said:
Off this evening to a very busy restaurant pre-covid which I managed to book only an hour ago. Will be interesting to see how busy it is/has been.
Thankfully it was a pleasurable evening, with the only changes relating to the number of tables and booking split into sessions.The owner was getting busier each day and is hopeful things will continue to improve. Spoke to a few people and they are likely to only visit the more 'relaxed' places. If the scared stay scared, it appears the more 'covid secure' establishments are going to suffer.
Condi said:
I do find it amazing that random people, probably IT managers or similar, can claim to know better than someone who has an OBE for services to evidence based science, is a fellow at Oxford, and a practicing GP. This place is unbelievable at times.
Well, the article was a rebuttal aimed at a prior reply to the author's earlier pro mask article where a professor at Cambridge leading public health research and another professor who is a member of the govt advisory on respiratory virus threats saw fit to disagree with her so it's not just random PH IT managers that think 'face coverings' aren't quite all they are being made out to be.....anonymous said:
[redacted]
We should be used by now to the fact that very many scientists working in this area are appalling at basic reasoning.Most of the paper is based on the unarticulated premise that asymptomatic transmission is common. It’s in fact rare. Aside from that, it’s almost pure assertion with some GCSE maths thrown in.
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