Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)
Discussion
technodup said:
edh said:
So why 100?
Anyway it's nonsense. Labour have made big mistakes in the past by imposing candidates onto local parties (Field, Hoey, Berger..)
AIUI the party machine has been taken over such that the local parties have the power to oust sitting MPs (candidates in an election setting) and install their preferred candidates, i.e. Momentum members.Anyway it's nonsense. Labour have made big mistakes in the past by imposing candidates onto local parties (Field, Hoey, Berger..)
There's no imposing going on, this is democracy the Labour way.
At the end of the day, it's all voluntary. Everyone is free to go.
s2art said:
edh said:
So why 100?
Anyway it's nonsense. Labour have made big mistakes in the past by imposing candidates onto local parties (Field, Hoey, Berger..)
Field?Before my time I guess, what/when did that happen?Anyway it's nonsense. Labour have made big mistakes in the past by imposing candidates onto local parties (Field, Hoey, Berger..)
edh said:
This is confused
If local parties have the power to select their own candidates, which they do, then whether or not "the party machine" has been taken over matters much less.
Are you saying the power is with local parties or "the machine"?
The machine is now Momentum. The local parties have the power to select candidates, but they are being swamped with new members in order to ensure the 'right' candidates. Creating hostile environments at meetings, changing voting procedures etc.If local parties have the power to select their own candidates, which they do, then whether or not "the party machine" has been taken over matters much less.
Are you saying the power is with local parties or "the machine"?
It is democracy of a sort, members still vote, but it's fairly clearly being gerrymandered all over the place.
Not that I particularly give a f
k about Labour or their MPs, I just want to see how messy it gets.I think the Momentum movement is a lot louder than it is large.
The solution is a real 'New Labour' with a constitution that makes the kind of Entryism that Momentum are so expert at very difficult.
Every moderate then needs to be brave enough to cut ties, and step across to the New Group, and leave Momentum as master and commander of an empty vessel.
The solution is a real 'New Labour' with a constitution that makes the kind of Entryism that Momentum are so expert at very difficult.
Every moderate then needs to be brave enough to cut ties, and step across to the New Group, and leave Momentum as master and commander of an empty vessel.
SpeckledJim said:
I think the Momentum movement is a lot louder than it is large.
Hmm, maybe. A friend is heavily involved in local politics and they were less concerned about the number, and more concerned about how successfully some of the hard core Trots (and how extreme they were) had embedded into the local party.Not interested in power. Interested in anarchy and chaos.
Vaud said:
SpeckledJim said:
I think the Momentum movement is a lot louder than it is large.
Hmm, maybe. A friend is heavily involved in local politics and they were less concerned about the number, and more concerned about how successfully some of the hard core Trots (and how extreme they were) had embedded into the local party.Not interested in power. Interested in anarchy and chaos.
The surrendering of the Labour Party name and intellectual property would be costly, but medium-term, if Momentum is here to stay, I'm not sure what the alternative is.
technodup said:
edh said:
This is confused
If local parties have the power to select their own candidates, which they do, then whether or not "the party machine" has been taken over matters much less.
Are you saying the power is with local parties or "the machine"?
The machine is now Momentum. The local parties have the power to select candidates, but they are being swamped with new members in order to ensure the 'right' candidates. Creating hostile environments at meetings, changing voting procedures etc.If local parties have the power to select their own candidates, which they do, then whether or not "the party machine" has been taken over matters much less.
Are you saying the power is with local parties or "the machine"?
It is democracy of a sort, members still vote, but it's fairly clearly being gerrymandered all over the place.
Not that I particularly give a f
k about Labour or their MPs, I just want to see how messy it gets.I think you're buying the sensationalist stories. I think it's good to see local members getting more active and holding their representatives to account.
The problem with the split happening this way is still that Corbyn will be using the Labour name.
He should have done what any respectable person would have done and stepped down when he lost the no-confidence vote.
Instead, he hides behind the Labour name to try and justify an appetite for his type of socialism, when the reality is, a lot people are just voting Labour out of habit and because of the name.
If he left and set up his own party with the Momentum crazies, he'd get nowhere. He knows that, hence why it's better to just take over Labour instead.
He should have done what any respectable person would have done and stepped down when he lost the no-confidence vote.
Instead, he hides behind the Labour name to try and justify an appetite for his type of socialism, when the reality is, a lot people are just voting Labour out of habit and because of the name.
If he left and set up his own party with the Momentum crazies, he'd get nowhere. He knows that, hence why it's better to just take over Labour instead.
Don't worry, Derek Hatton has been allowed back in, that will solve their problems
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/derek-hatto...
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/derek-hatto...
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