Discussion
Interesting split of the results between East and West
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/angela-merke...
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/angela-merke...
jjlynn27 said:
Not at all, what drives people to Trump, Brexit, etc. is desperation to blame someone else.
Superb irony.What drives people to Trump in the USA is the shrill control freakery they get from out-of-date left liberalism which claims to support the poor bloody infantry while cosying up to Wall St as they go from incredibly wealthy to fabulously rich while the average voter goes nowhere.
Reminiscent of former Labour MP and former Speaker, Gorbals Mick: "I didn't come into politics not to take what's owed to me".
What drove many people to Trump stateside and UK voters to brexit is a similar brand of distant, insufferable we-know-it-all-better-than-little people arrogance combined with incompetence. Like Clinton's defeat, brexit was self-inflicted to a significant degree.
Until the liberal left stops blaming someone else and sorts their act / manner out they risk getting more of the same, more top Trumps in the USA and more AFD in Germany.
Not-The-Messiah said:
Zod said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
jjlynn27 said:
Murph7355 said:
That sort of argument loses effectiveness the more people those parties attract.
Being that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
Not at all, what drives people to Trump, Brexit, etc. is desperation to blame someone else. It's presumably easier to say 'see, they say it's the immigrants/darkies fault for me being stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage' than 'fBeing that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
k, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'. The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
just like greygoose said
greygoose said:
Or a lot of idiots who think that immigrants discrimination are the reason for their failure in life, easier to blame someone else rather than yourself.
I agree with a lot of what jjlynn27 had to say. I just don't like this idea that it seems to be perfectly acceptable to stereotype one group call them stupid and lazy. But then you have other groups who if looked at in a comparable way are very similar. But get a fee pass and are seen as Nobel is cause.
jsf said:
May got 42.3%, Cameron in 2015 had 36.3%
Merkel came to power in 2005 Derek. Last time round Merkel had 41.3%, so dropped 9%. What's really the story is the loss of support for both major parties and the gains going to the far right, just as you saw in France.
Sorry. Shouldn't post stats from memory.Merkel came to power in 2005 Derek. Last time round Merkel had 41.3%, so dropped 9%. What's really the story is the loss of support for both major parties and the gains going to the far right, just as you saw in France.
I'm surprised Merkel's vote stayed up given the criticisms of here immigration policy. I would suggest the real story is that she's stayed in power.
The surge in the extreme right vote is hardly surprising. Just the opposite in fact. We are in the midst of an epic movement of people, one that will be the subject of television programmes in years to come. European countries have been targets of terror attacks against the general population on a scale that (the others) have not seen. Baader Meinhof in the 70s bombed and killed in various parts of Europe but it was a group, and there was a possible end.
The response that I expected was that the far right would do well, and certainly better than they have done.
Edited to add: some of the reports we've been getting in the UK about Germany have been way off beam. It is no surprise that there's been a rise in the votes for the right given the circumstances. Just because it is Germany, we get visions of nazi sympathisers, not to mention images to support. However, it is entirely possible that many of the voters are not far right in politics, they just want a different approach to immigration.
The collapse of the UKIP vote is, presumably, down to all the hopes of their voters being realised and immigration coming to an end. This will be confirmed/rejected when reality finally hits them. The rise in the left vote in the UK is, I think, down to the appalling tory party leadership and infighting. Once they've settled (if I suppose) then the vote will drop as long as it is not a far right PM.
Edited by Derek Smith on Monday 25th September 09:52
Shay HTFC said:
jjlynn27 said:
Murph7355 said:
That sort of argument loses effectiveness the more people those parties attract.
Being that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
Not at all, what drives people to Trump, Brexit, etc. is desperation to blame someone else. It's presumably easier to say 'see, they say it's the immigrants/darkies fault for me being stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage' than 'fBeing that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
k, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'. The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
Anything else?
Smiler. said:
jjlynn27 said:
Not at all, what drives people to Trump, Brexit, etc. is desperation to blame someone else. It's presumably easier to say 'see, they say it's the immigrants/darkies fault for me being stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage' than 'fk, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'.
The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
That last quip would actually suggest that you do think all. k, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'. The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
If not all, then what percentage, in your opinion?
Are the "sensitive flowers" (or "stalkers" as you refer to them), in your opinion ones who question your outfall? Or do they have another definition in your world?
Unlike you, I don't really care about what people on the obscure part of motoring forum think about me. So when I say I don't, I mean I don't.
I do understand why someone desperate for others to agree with him (her?) would think otherwise.
Edited by jjlynn27 on Monday 25th September 09:38
jjlynn27 said:
Hi stalker.
Unlike you, I don't really care about what people on the obscure part of motoring forum think about me. So when I say I don't, I mean I don't.
I do understand why someone desperate for others to agree with him (her?) would think otherwise.
Unlike you, I don't really care about what people on the obscure part of motoring forum think about me. So when I say I don't, I mean I don't.
I do understand why someone desperate for others to agree with him (her?) would think otherwise.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 25th September 09:38
So why do you post so much? You must be pushing your vitriol for some reason; if not to be agreed with or respected for your opinion then why?
Derek Smith said:
Edited to add: some of the reports we've been getting in the UK about Germany have been way off beam. It is no surprise that there's been a rise in the votes for the right given the circumstances. Just because it is Germany, we get visions of nazi sympathisers, not to mention images to support. However, it is entirely possible that many of the voters are not far right in politics, they just want a different approach to immigration.
On that we agree.It wouldn't surprise me that if Merkel were replaced with someone untainted with the 2016 crises, and with more robust views on immigration, the AFD vote wouldn't fall back toward where they were last election.
REALIST123 said:
jjlynn27 said:
Hi stalker.
Unlike you, I don't really care about what people on the obscure part of motoring forum think about me. So when I say I don't, I mean I don't.
I do understand why someone desperate for others to agree with him (her?) would think otherwise.
Unlike you, I don't really care about what people on the obscure part of motoring forum think about me. So when I say I don't, I mean I don't.
I do understand why someone desperate for others to agree with him (her?) would think otherwise.
Edited by jjlynn27 on Monday 25th September 09:38
So why do you post so much? You must be pushing your vitriol for some reason; if not to be agreed with or respected for your opinion then why?
But unwittingly, your question says quite a lot about you; you care about being 'respected' by a bunch of nobodies? That's probably the saddest thing ever. I'll take a stab in the dark here; you are very old, aren't you?
jjlynn27 said:
REALIST123 said:
jjlynn27 said:
Hi stalker.
Unlike you, I don't really care about what people on the obscure part of motoring forum think about me. So when I say I don't, I mean I don't.
I do understand why someone desperate for others to agree with him (her?) would think otherwise.
Unlike you, I don't really care about what people on the obscure part of motoring forum think about me. So when I say I don't, I mean I don't.
I do understand why someone desperate for others to agree with him (her?) would think otherwise.
Edited by jjlynn27 on Monday 25th September 09:38
So why do you post so much? You must be pushing your vitriol for some reason; if not to be agreed with or respected for your opinion then why?
But unwittingly, your question says quite a lot about you; you care about being 'respected' by a bunch of nobodies? That's probably the saddest thing ever. I'll take a stab in the dark here; you are very old, aren't you?
Smiler. said:
jjlynn27 said:
REALIST123 said:
jjlynn27 said:
Hi stalker.
Unlike you, I don't really care about what people on the obscure part of motoring forum think about me. So when I say I don't, I mean I don't.
I do understand why someone desperate for others to agree with him (her?) would think otherwise.
Unlike you, I don't really care about what people on the obscure part of motoring forum think about me. So when I say I don't, I mean I don't.
I do understand why someone desperate for others to agree with him (her?) would think otherwise.
Edited by jjlynn27 on Monday 25th September 09:38
So why do you post so much? You must be pushing your vitriol for some reason; if not to be agreed with or respected for your opinion then why?
But unwittingly, your question says quite a lot about you; you care about being 'respected' by a bunch of nobodies? That's probably the saddest thing ever. I'll take a stab in the dark here; you are very old, aren't you?
jjlynn27 said:
Free entertainment.
But unwittingly, your question says quite a lot about you; you care about being 'respected' by a bunch of nobodies? That's probably the saddest thing ever. I'll take a stab in the dark here; you are very old, aren't you?
What is it with you and old people? But unwittingly, your question says quite a lot about you; you care about being 'respected' by a bunch of nobodies? That's probably the saddest thing ever. I'll take a stab in the dark here; you are very old, aren't you?
JagLover said:
Greg66 said:
JagLover said:
What we actually have is a centre right party
That says quite a bit about your politics. So you think the Tories are far right do you.
-3 Far Right.......... -2 Right......... -1 Centre Right.......... 0 Centre.......... +1 Centre Left.......... +2 Left.......... +3 Far Left.
The3 Cameron/Osborne Tories were around -1. The Maybot mess is around -2 (with a smattering of +2 economic po0licies to show how confused they are).
PS don't read anything into the negative and positive signs; that's just how you generally label graph axes.
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