Persimmon Homes -- CEO £100m Bonus...

[sidicks]

John145 said:

I am, thanks, 3rd time in 6 years. But as seems to be a theme here: This is fine for an individual, but for a state it just will not work.

The workforce is just a group of individuals who can all seek to act in their own best interests.
As explained previously, not everyone places the same focus on remuneration and many will prefer a better work-life balance or convenient location to higher remuneration that comes which higher expectations, longer working hours, increased travel requirements etc.

John145 said:

Now that you have managed to achieve no ideas for stopping a Corbyn government are we just going to resign ourselves to the fact?

One poorly designed scheme doesn’t mean a Corbyn government.

[John145]

sidicks said:

John145 said:

I am, thanks, 3rd time in 6 years. But as seems to be a theme here: This is fine for an individual, but for a state it just will not work.

The workforce is just a group of individuals who can all seek to act in their own best interests.
As explained previously, not everyone places the same focus on remuneration and many will prefer a better work-life balance or convenient location to higher remuneration that comes which higher expectations, longer working hours, increased travel requirements etc.

John145 said:

Now that you have managed to achieve no ideas for stopping a Corbyn government are we just going to resign ourselves to the fact?

One poorly designed scheme doesn’t mean a Corbyn government.

Do you really think Persimmon is a one off case? It's just the latest in a long line of unjustifiable decisions hidden by the "just work harder" argument.

[TooMany2cvs]

John145 said:

sidicks said:

John145 said:

I'm struggling here to understand why comparing the UK to Germany for similar businesses earning similar profit levels salaries vary so much. I put it down to the different cultures of inward investment and also how easy it is to replace staff.

Why don’t you move to Germany?

Funny you should suggest that.

Better get on with it. You've only got a year and a bit, thanks to the people who complain about people being able to move to better their lot in life.

[John145]

TooMany2cvs said:

Better get on with it. You've only got a year and a bit, thanks to the people who complain about people being able to move to better their lot in life.

Regardless of what happens in 2 years it'll be a damn site easier getting across the channel for work than across the pond.

[TooMany2cvs]

John145 said:

Regardless of what happens in 2 years it'll be a damn site easier getting across the channel for work than across the pond.

The difficult bit will be getting the working visa, not deciding whether to drive via the tunnel or get a taxi to Heathrow.

[John145]

TooMany2cvs said:

John145 said:

Regardless of what happens in 2 years it'll be a damn site easier getting across the channel for work than across the pond.

The difficult bit will be getting the working visa, not deciding whether to drive via the tunnel or get a taxi to Heathrow.

My point still stands.

[tankplanker]

hyphen said:

Is it?

Banks like Goldmans undertake an annual cull, 5-10% of their workforce are fired each year to weed out worst performers.

I can't speak about Goldmans but I can speak about Microsoft who used a similar scheme. At first it got rid of a bunch of people that needed moving on, but it was left in place far too long and it started removing good staff as there was no more chaff to remove. In time it started rewarding those who could game the appraisal system (as the top 5/10% get promoted/bigger bonuses) more than those who actually performed better and the culture became more about what people could do to make their appraisal look good rather than what was best for the company and customers. Microsoft scrapped this system recently, because of these problems.

[TooMany2cvs]

John145 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

John145 said:

Regardless of what happens in 2 years it'll be a damn site easier getting across the channel for work than across the pond.

The difficult bit will be getting the working visa, not deciding whether to drive via the tunnel or get a taxi to Heathrow.

My point still stands.

We have no idea at all yet. For all we know, the Schengen working visa process will not regard UK nationals any differently to any other non-EU national.

[crankedup]

James_B said:

crankedup said:

Maybe the recipients of the cash are donating some of it to worthy causes, haven’t heard or read anything that suggests this is occurring as yet....

...One thing that is certain is the unrest that is being caused as a result of such payments, who knows where this will lead us to.

The payment to good causes is not voluntary, HMRC insists. A bonus of £100m will be a £47m tax payment.

I think that you are overestimating the unrest. Most people don’t care what other people earn, it just doesn’t matter to them.

Thise who do get worked up over it would be well advised to put their energy into improving their own skills, marketability and value. Getting upset and complaining really just damages their quality of life and brings no better rewards.

Didn’t mention ‘good causes’ I said worthy causes.
I’m not sure that your statement regarding social unrest is accurate when some of those at the ‘top’ openly and publicly state thier genuine concerns over the issue of ‘excessive remnumeration’.
Agree that we are fortunate in that career progression is available, of note is the CEO who’s bonus we are discussing has worked his way up the greasy pole, good for him. However, I personally feel that morally such payments are a cause of growing concern within all strata of Society.

[otolith]

Otispunkmeyer said:

For me, just seems a bit bad taste to accept the bonus...£100m is a euro millions win. For what?

Probably more than nipping down to the shop with £2.50?

[James_B]

John145 said:

I'm moving onto my 3rd job since graduating 6 years ago to finally get a salary I can be proud of. It seems a kind of madness to me that such displacement be required to be paid for what I'm worth.

Maybe you are wrong about what you are worth. It doesn’t sound like you were sought out for your expertise on the GT project, you may just have happened to be there. You still haven’t explained what risk you took either.

To be honest, and it’s probably a function of your age, you sound like you maybe rate yourself higher than your employers do.

Good luck in your endeavours, but it sounds like the job is not entrepreneurial at all. It’s skilled, and paid appropriately for that.

[James_B]

John145 said:

Do you really think Persimmon is a one off case? It's just the latest in a long line of unjustifiable decisions hidden by the "just work harder" argument.

Work better, and more intelligently, not just harder.

My first job was as a civil servant, and it was going nowhere, so I left, and did a good doctorate. I then leveraged that to a job in finance, and then moved products and banks over the following years, increasing skills and knowledge, until I had what the next bank wanted in a “head of” trading role.

I’m still salaried, but have worked my way into a job where the salary is pretty good.

[crankedup]

James_B said:

John145 said:

Do you really think Persimmon is a one off case? It's just the latest in a long line of unjustifiable decisions hidden by the "just work harder" argument.

Work better, and more intelligently, not just harder.

My first job was as a civil servant, and it was going nowhere, so I left, and did a good doctorate. I then leveraged that to a job in finance, and then moved products and banks over the following years, increasing skills and knowledge, until I had what the next bank wanted in a “head of” trading role.

I’m still salaried, but have worked my way into a job where the salary is pretty good.

Yes that’s a lesson from many decades ago, and it hasn’t changed much, it can still work for some people. However, many of these Director level jobs and above are very much closed shop. You need to be known and it helps to have some well placed pals to assist in door opening. Much like the remnumeration boards which are a merry go around of well connected people.

[sidicks]

crankedup said:

Yes that’s a lesson from many decades ago, and it hasn’t changed much, it can still work for some people. However, many of these Director level jobs and above are very much closed shop. You need to be known and it helps to have some well placed pals to assist in door opening. Much like the remnumeration boards which are a merry go around of well connected people.

Not really. You get 'known' by working your way up and having lots of useful experience.

[John145]

James_B said:

John145 said:

Do you really think Persimmon is a one off case? It's just the latest in a long line of unjustifiable decisions hidden by the "just work harder" argument.

Work better, and more intelligently, not just harder.

My first job was as a civil servant, and it was going nowhere, so I left, and did a good doctorate. I then leveraged that to a job in finance, and then moved products and banks over the following years, increasing skills and knowledge, until I had what the next bank wanted in a “head of” trading role.

I’m still salaried, but have worked my way into a job where the salary is pretty good.

So no problems here, nothing see, move along move along.

If you can’t see a problem here that needs fixing don’t be surprised with a JC government.

I stated an example of risk but I guess if risk for you is only £££ then you won’t understand.

I’m not an entrepreneur, most people in the country aren’t either. Does this mean that the platform that entrepreneurs jump off (the workers) is worth nothing? Do you seriously believe that investors putting into Persimmon and the like are really risking anything significant? It’s all calculated returns and if it’s goes tits up it’s just another day in the office.

[V8 Fettler]

Rovinghawk said:

V8 Fettler said:

There's at least three different packing systems available to allow for misalignment of the foundations.

I've seen pilecaps broken out due to HD bolts being 5mm out of position. It's heartbreaking.

Offsite fabrication can be good but designers need to allow some form of tolerance.

What tolerances did the construction drawings show?

[shep1001]

Yipper said:

The TrustPilot reviews for Persimmon are interesting. Company scores 1 out of 10...

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.persimmonhome...

Yup, they are building a development over the road from where we eventually bought. They are the biggest bunch of clowns going. Quality is shocking & their complete incompetence is staggering.

Most volume house builders have their issues but I am so glad I dodged a bullet there. Our friends continued with their purchase and are living to regret it!

Their finest moments for me, the sales adviser threatening to give me a slap when I laughed at him whilst refusing to sign off plans for the house that were so clearly wrong (they had changed the orientation of the house).

They were also selling the plots as leasehold but couldn't/wouldn't tell people what the ground rent was, if the homebuyer could buy the lease or the mechanism for annual price increases. All they wanted was the 2k deposit otherwise you 'would lose your plot'. It didn't go well the houses didn't sell at all and I now understand they were sold as freehold properties.

[blueg33]

shep1001 said:

Yipper said:

The TrustPilot reviews for Persimmon are interesting. Company scores 1 out of 10...

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.persimmonhome...

Yup, they are building a development over the road from where we eventually bought. They are the biggest bunch of clowns going. Quality is shocking & their complete incompetence is staggering.

Most volume house builders have their issues but I am so glad I dodged a bullet there. Our friends continued with their purchase and are living to regret it!

Their finest moments for me, the sales adviser threatening to give me a slap when I laughed at him whilst refusing to sign off plans for the house that were so clearly wrong (they had changed the orientation of the house).

They were also selling the plots as leasehold but couldn't/wouldn't tell people what the ground rent was, if the homebuyer could buy the lease or the mechanism for annual price increases. All they wanted was the 2k deposit otherwise you 'would lose your plot'. It didn't go well the houses didn't sell at all and I now understand they were sold as freehold properties.

The change to FH plots from LH plots will be because the whole industry is changing. The change back to FH is because they all tried to get greedy by selling off ground rents that were inflating and suddenly buyers realised what that meant.

I have seen some high quality Persimmon sites and some shoddy ones, you cannot tar the whole of a volume house builder on the basis of one site. Local site management remains the single biggest factor in quality of product.

[hyphen]

blueg33 said:

shep1001 said:

Yipper said:

The TrustPilot reviews for Persimmon are interesting. Company scores 1 out of 10...

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.persimmonhome...

Yup, they are building a development over the road from where we eventually bought. They are the biggest bunch of clowns going. Quality is shocking & their complete incompetence is staggering.

Most volume house builders have their issues but I am so glad I dodged a bullet there. Our friends continued with their purchase and are living to regret it!

Their finest moments for me, the sales adviser threatening to give me a slap when I laughed at him whilst refusing to sign off plans for the house that were so clearly wrong (they had changed the orientation of the house).

They were also selling the plots as leasehold but couldn't/wouldn't tell people what the ground rent was, if the homebuyer could buy the lease or the mechanism for annual price increases. All they wanted was the 2k deposit otherwise you 'would lose your plot'. It didn't go well the houses didn't sell at all and I now understand they were sold as freehold properties.

The change to FH plots from LH plots will be because the whole industry is changing. The change back to FH is because they all tried to get greedy by selling off ground rents that were inflating and suddenly buyers realised what that meant.

I have seen some high quality Persimmon sites and some shoddy ones, you cannot tar the whole of a volume house builder on the basis of one site. Local site management remains the single biggest factor in quality of product.

Sale of houses with leaseholds is being banned by government very shortly.

[V8 Fettler]

blueg33 said:

The change to FH plots from LH plots will be because the whole industry is changing. The change back to FH is because they all tried to get greedy by selling off ground rents that were inflating and suddenly buyers realised what that meant.

I have seen some high quality Persimmon sites and some shoddy ones, you cannot tar the whole of a volume house builder on the basis of one site. Local site management remains the single biggest factor in quality of product.

= cottage industry with little in the way of quality control