Cost of living squeeze in 2022, 23 & 24 (Vol. 2)

[KAgantua]

Bullett said:

We have an Ipace. It's got a 90kWh battery we probably fully charge it once a week, about 80kWh @ 32p call it £26 a week. Officially 240 mile range but in reality closer to 220 pottering and 180-200 if you are doing high motorway speeds. 13ppm, still cheaper than running my Mini at around 21ppm.

That really cold month our combined bill hit just over £700. 5 bed detached 1970's house, 2 kids and I mostly work from home so some daytime heating. We have brand new double glazing and insulated walls. Heating has been on for just over an hour today (6am to about 9.30) and the temp is currently 16.8c at the thermostat.

Must really be spanking it to hit 900 but two electric cars will drive a lot of that. Or a swimming pool or hot tub.

Stupid question but how much does it cost to charge a car like that up fully?

[Grumps.]

JagLover said:

To little surprise interest rates now up to 4%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-64457377

Wow, that is gonna sting some.

Blaming everything from covid to the war in Ukraine, which in my option, funding should be slowly reducing not increasing.

[troika]

JagLover said:

To little surprise interest rates now up to 4%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-64457377

Still amazingly cheap money historically. All depends on how much you’ve borrowed…

[Louis Balfour]

troika said:

JagLover said:

To little surprise interest rates now up to 4%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-64457377

Still amazingly cheap money historically. All depends on how much you’ve borrowed…

The historic average is 4.75% IIRC so it isn’t THAT cheap.

[isaldiri]

JagLover said:

To little surprise interest rates now up to 4%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-64457377

Well, the headlines might be around the increase in base rates but actual longer term funding costs (ie gilt yields) are getting battered as basically everyone in the capital markets thinks it's going to be back to monetary easing territory soon because the government is going to a) struggle to maintain funding at high rates and b) needs to be doing something if the economic projections are even close to reality.....

[skwdenyer]

isaldiri said:

JagLover said:

To little surprise interest rates now up to 4%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-64457377

Well, the headlines might be around the increase in base rates but actual longer term funding costs (ie gilt yields) are getting battered as basically everyone in the capital markets thinks it's going to be back to monetary easing territory soon because the government is going to a) struggle to maintain funding at high rates and b) needs to be doing something if the economic projections are even close to reality.....

There's no evidence inflation's caused by over-consumption. Credit is still freely-available (I'm getting inundated with 0% until 2024/5 credit card deals, for instance). Mortgages haven't dried-up. Putting up interest rates seems - to me - likely to cause inflation.

Set against that, rising rates might help keep the £ up vs EUR/USD, which in turn would stop FX-driven inflation on imports.

Agreed about the easing issue - for a lot of businesses, if there isn't another round of Bounce-Back Loans / a proper reset of the Recovery Loan Scheme (the v2 iteration is pointless IMHO) / something else, we're going to be in trouble sooner rather than later.

[isaldiri]

skwdenyer said:

There's no evidence inflation's caused by over-consumption. Credit is still freely-available (I'm getting inundated with 0% until 2024/5 credit card deals, for instance). Mortgages haven't dried-up. Putting up interest rates seems - to me - likely to cause inflation.

Set against that, rising rates might help keep the £ up vs EUR/USD, which in turn would stop FX-driven inflation on imports.

Agreed about the easing issue - for a lot of businesses, if there isn't another round of Bounce-Back Loans / a proper reset of the Recovery Loan Scheme (the v2 iteration is pointless IMHO) / something else, we're going to be in trouble sooner rather than later.

If credit is so freely available as you posted right at the start of your post, why would a further round of bounce-back loans/RLS be needed?

FX rates are also determined not just by overnight funding rates but also (probably far more) by longer term yields and capital flows that are down to perception of relative economic strength. Raising rates has a rather less marked impact on them then you are suggesting as well. While the main trigger of inflation has not been over consumption, the whole point of raising rates was to be lowering consumption no matter what the cost to ensure that what is actually within the remit of the central bank (whoever limited) is being done to reduce inflation because every little helps....

[Bullett]

KAgantua said:

Bullett said:

We have an Ipace. It's got a 90kWh battery we probably fully charge it once a week, about 80kWh @ 32p call it £26 a week. Officially 240 mile range but in reality closer to 220 pottering and 180-200 if you are doing high motorway speeds. 13ppm, still cheaper than running my Mini at around 21ppm.

That really cold month our combined bill hit just over £700. 5 bed detached 1970's house, 2 kids and I mostly work from home so some daytime heating. We have brand new double glazing and insulated walls. Heating has been on for just over an hour today (6am to about 9.30) and the temp is currently 16.8c at the thermostat.

Must really be spanking it to hit 900 but two electric cars will drive a lot of that. Or a swimming pool or hot tub.

Stupid question but how much does it cost to charge a car like that up fully?

I mention it in the post, we are on 32p standard rate and the battery holds 90kWh. So £24 to £28 nearly empty to full.

[Dracoro]

Bullett said:

KAgantua said:

Bullett said:

We have an Ipace. It's got a 90kWh battery we probably fully charge it once a week, about 80kWh @ 32p call it £26 a week. Officially 240 mile range but in reality closer to 220 pottering and 180-200 if you are doing high motorway speeds. 13ppm, still cheaper than running my Mini at around 21ppm.

That really cold month our combined bill hit just over £700. 5 bed detached 1970's house, 2 kids and I mostly work from home so some daytime heating. We have brand new double glazing and insulated walls. Heating has been on for just over an hour today (6am to about 9.30) and the temp is currently 16.8c at the thermostat.

Must really be spanking it to hit 900 but two electric cars will drive a lot of that. Or a swimming pool or hot tub.

Stupid question but how much does it cost to charge a car like that up fully?

I mention it in the post, we are on 32p standard rate and the battery holds 90kWh. So £24 to £28 nearly empty to full.

So, for example, a petrol car doing 45mpg requires 4.8 gallons to cover same 220 miles. 4.8 gallons cost about £33.

So electric is barely cheaper than a petrol car. Presumably if you charge up at public charging stations, it's more expensive than petrol?

[J4CKO]

Dracoro said:

Bullett said:

KAgantua said:

Bullett said:

We have an Ipace. It's got a 90kWh battery we probably fully charge it once a week, about 80kWh @ 32p call it £26 a week. Officially 240 mile range but in reality closer to 220 pottering and 180-200 if you are doing high motorway speeds. 13ppm, still cheaper than running my Mini at around 21ppm.

That really cold month our combined bill hit just over £700. 5 bed detached 1970's house, 2 kids and I mostly work from home so some daytime heating. We have brand new double glazing and insulated walls. Heating has been on for just over an hour today (6am to about 9.30) and the temp is currently 16.8c at the thermostat.

Must really be spanking it to hit 900 but two electric cars will drive a lot of that. Or a swimming pool or hot tub.

Stupid question but how much does it cost to charge a car like that up fully?

I mention it in the post, we are on 32p standard rate and the battery holds 90kWh. So £24 to £28 nearly empty to full.

So, for example, a petrol car doing 45mpg requires 4.8 gallons to cover same 220 miles. 4.8 gallons cost about £33.

So electric is barely cheaper than a petrol car. Presumably if you charge up at public charging stations, it's more expensive than petrol?

You are effectively comparing an Ipace, which is a large luxury electric SUV to a VW Up! there, if you compare Apples with Apples, the equivalent large petrol SUV might scrape half of 45 MPG, even comparable diesel ones dont generally do 45 mpg.

[Flooble]

J4CKO said:

You are effectively comparing an Ipace, which is a large luxury electric SUV to a VW Up! there, if you compare Apples with Apples, the equivalent large petrol SUV might scrape half of 45 MPG, even comparable diesel ones dont generally do 45 mpg.

Fortunately, Jaguar make the ePace. Which does 44mpg combined cycle. So ...

[Earthdweller]

J4CKO said:

Dracoro said:

Bullett said:

KAgantua said:

Bullett said:

We have an Ipace. It's got a 90kWh battery we probably fully charge it once a week, about 80kWh @ 32p call it £26 a week. Officially 240 mile range but in reality closer to 220 pottering and 180-200 if you are doing high motorway speeds. 13ppm, still cheaper than running my Mini at around 21ppm.

That really cold month our combined bill hit just over £700. 5 bed detached 1970's house, 2 kids and I mostly work from home so some daytime heating. We have brand new double glazing and insulated walls. Heating has been on for just over an hour today (6am to about 9.30) and the temp is currently 16.8c at the thermostat.

Must really be spanking it to hit 900 but two electric cars will drive a lot of that. Or a swimming pool or hot tub.

Stupid question but how much does it cost to charge a car like that up fully?

I mention it in the post, we are on 32p standard rate and the battery holds 90kWh. So £24 to £28 nearly empty to full.

So, for example, a petrol car doing 45mpg requires 4.8 gallons to cover same 220 miles. 4.8 gallons cost about £33.

So electric is barely cheaper than a petrol car. Presumably if you charge up at public charging stations, it's more expensive than petrol?

You are effectively comparing an Ipace, which is a large luxury electric SUV to a VW Up! there, if you compare Apples with Apples, the equivalent large petrol SUV might scrape half of 45 MPG, even comparable diesel ones dont generally do 45 mpg.

Well they do

My diesel X3 will do 45mpg easily on a run, the average over the last 83k miles is 40mpg ( 220m £36)

My Mini Countryman D, again a fairly big car will do 65mpg + on a run, long term average is around 55mpg over nearly 60k miles ( 220m cost £26)

My 3.0 petrol BMW Z4 will do 40mpg on a run, touring mid 30’s (220m £36)

My little Fiat does 50mpg for fun
So about £28 to do 220 miles

There’s very little in it, and that’s against domestic charging .. put against public charging then all the above would be cheaper to run than the EV

[Dracoro]

Earthdweller said:

Well they do

My diesel X3 will do 45mpg easily on a run, the average over the last 83k miles is 40mpg ( 220m £36)

My Mini Countryman D, again a fairly big car will do 65mpg + on a run, long term average is around 55mpg over nearly 60k miles ( 220m cost £26)

My 3.0 petrol BMW Z4 will do 40mpg on a run, touring mid 30’s (220m £36)

My little Fiat does 50mpg for fun
So about £28 to do 220 miles

There’s very little in it, and that’s against domestic charging .. put against public charging then all the above would be cheaper to run than the EV

Yup
My largish (petrol) estate does 45mpg, the wife's CRV does 55/60. Both of those mixed with motorway miles etc. the post I quoted said 220miles "plodding" around but 180/200 when using motorways.
So overall not a lot in it, especially if you do a lot of motorway miles and especially if using public car charging too....
I'm not comparing the example cars in respect of overall package (I'm sure the iPace is nice and all that) but just comparing a mix of large-ish cars.

So a large electric SUV is better round town, however if most your mileage is round town, a large-ish SUV is a bit overkill isn't it? (yeah yeah, I know everyone simply has to have a large SUV no matter the circumstances these days ).

[Bullett]

On the road prices for charging is a lot more expensive than home. Faster chargers are more expensive.
Shell charge 55p to 85p per kWh
BP are 44p to 69p
Instavolt are 75p

Shopping around isn't really viable when out and about so you have to suck it up and just charge with what you can get. I'll put in either the most I can in the time available or enough to get me home if heading back.

[skwdenyer]

Dracoro said:

Bullett said:

KAgantua said:

Bullett said:

We have an Ipace. It's got a 90kWh battery we probably fully charge it once a week, about 80kWh @ 32p call it £26 a week. Officially 240 mile range but in reality closer to 220 pottering and 180-200 if you are doing high motorway speeds. 13ppm, still cheaper than running my Mini at around 21ppm.

That really cold month our combined bill hit just over £700. 5 bed detached 1970's house, 2 kids and I mostly work from home so some daytime heating. We have brand new double glazing and insulated walls. Heating has been on for just over an hour today (6am to about 9.30) and the temp is currently 16.8c at the thermostat.

Must really be spanking it to hit 900 but two electric cars will drive a lot of that. Or a swimming pool or hot tub.

Stupid question but how much does it cost to charge a car like that up fully?

I mention it in the post, we are on 32p standard rate and the battery holds 90kWh. So £24 to £28 nearly empty to full.

So, for example, a petrol car doing 45mpg requires 4.8 gallons to cover same 220 miles. 4.8 gallons cost about £33.

So electric is barely cheaper than a petrol car. Presumably if you charge up at public charging stations, it's more expensive than petrol?

At 32p / unit, yes. Move on to something like Octopus Go, however, and that rate drops - I got quoted 12p the other day for a rural property on Go.

[Earthdweller]

skwdenyer said:

At 32p / unit, yes. Move on to something like Octopus Go, however, and that rate drops - I got quoted 12p the other day for a rural property on Go.

When you look at that rate you are getting the 12p rate for 4/24hrs the rest of the time your rate is much higher than the standard rates of other suppliers ( by about 10-12p per/kWh .. plus the daily standing charge is higher

I’m not sure that you’d save anything in reality as for everything else you did, other than charging a car, will cost you more

[skwdenyer]

Earthdweller said:

skwdenyer said:

At 32p / unit, yes. Move on to something like Octopus Go, however, and that rate drops - I got quoted 12p the other day for a rural property on Go.

When you look at that rate you are getting the 12p rate for 4/24hrs the rest of the time your rate is much higher than the standard rates of other suppliers ( by about 10-12p per/kWh .. plus the daily standing charge is higher

I’m not sure that you’d save anything in reality as for everything else you did, other than charging a car, will cost you more

Depends upon your usage. In our house, the big electricity-consumers are washing (run overnight), drying (ditto), dishwashing (ditto), etc. Lighting is nothing, cooking tends to be very low, things like fridges / freezers are bought on efficiency (and, in the case of the freezer, kept in a cold room). So we're left with TVs, consoles, computers, and so on.

But every family / property is different. I was just demonstrating that it is possible (and, especially if you charge an EV a lot, potentially very beneficial) to switch to a different tariff.

[CTO]

If it makes anyone feel any better…

Our utility bill last month was over £700.

That’s a lot, it’s more when you consider it’s only for electricity.

It’s even more when you factor in we currently live in this luxury…





Fml

[Earthdweller]

skwdenyer said:

Depends upon your usage. In our house, the big electricity-consumers are washing (run overnight), drying (ditto), dishwashing (ditto), etc. Lighting is nothing, cooking tends to be very low, things like fridges / freezers are bought on efficiency (and, in the case of the freezer, kept in a cold room). So we're left with TVs, consoles, computers, and so on.

But every family / property is different. I was just demonstrating that it is possible (and, especially if you charge an EV a lot, potentially very beneficial) to switch to a different tariff.

I do wonder though how cost efficient all these “eco” tariffs or other energy saving schemes really are

12p to charge my car ? Well after £1000 to
Buy a fast charger and have someone install it

Solar panels ? Amazingly Cheap hot water … only cost me £8k to get it

Heat pump ? Amazingly cheap heat … only cost me £40k and completely re-plumbed my house to get it

It often seems nothing but smoke and mirrors

[Earthdweller]

CTO said:

If it makes anyone feel any better…

Our utility bill last month was over £700.

That’s a lot, it’s more when you consider it’s only for electricity.

It’s even more when you factor in we currently live in this luxury…





Fml

Bet you can see its heat glow from space