Can we talk about Sweden for a bit?

[Dakkon]

I have worked there extensively for Ikea some years ago in Almhult and Helsingborg and then more recently in Malmo last year and this year.

I have never witnessed any of the violence myself, but colleagues talked about it all the time. It is very common in Malmo for hand grenades to be let off in streets which never makes any news headlines. Some of the Swedish ladies I worked with were very concerned with life in Sweden and where it is all going.

A good friend of mine moved to Sweden and married and Swedish girl they have had numerous conversations about whether they stay, but because of the threat of Brexit, coming back to the UK for him may not be ideal either.

[Mastodon2]

It seems unimaginable that the violence in Southern Sweden is so out of control. I was in Malmö a few months ago, arriving in the afternoon when a woman had been shot outside the train station in the morning, everyone acted like nothing had happened.

I'm saddened to hear the violence has spread to Lund too, it's a nice place, though undoubtedly has a few rough areas.

To the guy who asked if we've been to Sweden, I've been a lot of times and generally like the place. It's probably the easiest European place to travel for business aside from Germany, as far as countries where English isn't the first language is concerned. The countryside is beautiful and the people are friendly and intelligent, though admittedly I only really deal with a small set of well-educated people in good jobs, so my perception may be skewed. The husmanskost is delicious too.

I think the weirdest experience I've had in Sweden was in a small town in Stockholm county. We were staying in a crap hotel, the only one in town and it was rammed with loads of Northern African looking blokes in their late teens to late thirties, who just sat around the hotel a day doing nothing but complaining about the WiFi and smoking cannabis on the front steps. When I got into a taxi at 03:30am back to Arlanda airport, there were still about fifteen blokes sitting outside smoking. I did wonder where they came from, why they were in Sweden and who was paying their hotel and living costs. One could only speculate.

[Dibble]

Down and out said:

NDA said:

I read that Labour is 'campaigning for free movement, equality and rights for migrants' in policies that will widen the doorway into the UK. I wonder if anyone watches how successful this has been in Sweden which has been irrevocably changed by such actions.

You got it all wrong, people on here have been on holiday there and it's all hunky dory.

Not quite what I said. What I said was I’d been a few times, but mostly outside the big cities, so hadn’t seen any real problems personally. Having travelled there, I was a bit surprised by some of the more extreme/right wing/racist views I encountered, but they were really in the minority of people I met.

I realise Sweden isn’t Utopia and has its own set of problems. I’ve never personally felt unsafe there, whereas I have felt unsafe in other countries, as well as bigger cities in the UK. I’d no doubt feel less safe if I was around places were people were lobbing hand grenades and shooting people.

[Canute]

I think the violence here is a general worry, but I don't feel it is any worse than the UK or elsewhere.

The main problem I see is that the police are woefully underfunded and the ones that are working as police probably feel undervalued also, the police salary is not great. Part of the problem is that Sweden is a very sparse country outside of the major cities and the police are spread very thinly and so underworld crime is going undetected and contributes to the tribal / gang stuff in the cities.

Overall, I think the quality of life in Sweden is superior to most other EU countries despite all of this happening and this is perhaps what Swedes are worried about, quality of life is degraded a bit! It's not on the minds of many people I know but when you see the news you think about it a bit.

[rovermorris999]

Canute said:

I think the violence here is a general worry, but I don't feel it is any worse than the UK or elsewhere.

I haven't noticed grenades and bombs going off weekly in the UK although the apparent increase in knife crime is a worry.

[Canute]

rovermorris999 said:

I haven't noticed grenades and bombs going off weekly in the UK although the apparent increase in knife crime is a worry.

The knife crime is the UK problem, the fireworks/grenades are Swedens, each country has it's own issues, I just don't feel it is such a big thing as certain/politicians media are making it. It obviously needs tackling, but it's not like some form invasion of ISIS.

[Earthdweller]

Canute said:

rovermorris999 said:

I haven't noticed grenades and bombs going off weekly in the UK although the apparent increase in knife crime is a worry.

The knife crime is the UK problem, the fireworks/grenades are Swedens, each country has it's own issues, I just don't feel it is such a big thing as certain/politicians media are making it. It obviously needs tackling, but it's not like some form invasion of ISIS.

In fairness, violent crime and homicide in the UK is lower now than it has been for decades

It’s just we live in an age of instant media .. the 90’s and early 00’s were far more violent with considerably more murders

[Canute]

Earthdweller said:

In fairness, violent crime and homicide in the UK is lower now than it has been for decades

It’s just we live in an age of instant media .. the 90’s and early 00’s were far more violent with considerably more murders

Sweden's murder rate is lower than the UK and hasn't risen much, just the proportion of murders by gun has risen a bit over other methods.

[Finlandia]

Two recent murders put Sweden in a very different position when comparing to other comparable countries, the point blank execution of a mother carrying her infant and the shooting of a 15 year old kid, the other 15 year old still fighting for his life.
No big surprise that these both happened in Malmö.

[markcoznottz]

Earthdweller said:

Canute said:

rovermorris999 said:

I haven't noticed grenades and bombs going off weekly in the UK although the apparent increase in knife crime is a worry.

The knife crime is the UK problem, the fireworks/grenades are Swedens, each country has it's own issues, I just don't feel it is such a big thing as certain/politicians media are making it. It obviously needs tackling, but it's not like some form invasion of ISIS.

In fairness, violent crime and homicide in the UK is lower now than it has been for decades

It’s just we live in an age of instant media .. the 90’s and early 00’s were far more violent with considerably more murders

You can't know that because the method of recording crime has been changed several times since the early 00's. Some would say deliberately.

[Rare]

markcoznottz said:

Earthdweller said:

Canute said:

rovermorris999 said:

I haven't noticed grenades and bombs going off weekly in the UK although the apparent increase in knife crime is a worry.

The knife crime is the UK problem, the fireworks/grenades are Swedens, each country has it's own issues, I just don't feel it is such a big thing as certain/politicians media are making it. It obviously needs tackling, but it's not like some form invasion of ISIS.

In fairness, violent crime and homicide in the UK is lower now than it has been for decades

It’s just we live in an age of instant media .. the 90’s and early 00’s were far more violent with considerably more murders

You can't know that because the method of recording crime has been changed several times since the early 00's. Some would say deliberately.

Whilst the UK and Sweden do suffer from different issues Knives vs Grenades, those involved do both tend to be immigrant groups / descendants of, which tends to make the problems difficult to discuss / solve.

[Finlandia]

Rare said:

markcoznottz said:

Earthdweller said:

Canute said:

rovermorris999 said:

I haven't noticed grenades and bombs going off weekly in the UK although the apparent increase in knife crime is a worry.

The knife crime is the UK problem, the fireworks/grenades are Swedens, each country has it's own issues, I just don't feel it is such a big thing as certain/politicians media are making it. It obviously needs tackling, but it's not like some form invasion of ISIS.

In fairness, violent crime and homicide in the UK is lower now than it has been for decades

It’s just we live in an age of instant media .. the 90’s and early 00’s were far more violent with considerably more murders

You can't know that because the method of recording crime has been changed several times since the early 00's. Some would say deliberately.

Whilst the UK and Sweden do suffer from different issues Knives vs Grenades, those involved do both tend to be immigrant groups / descendants of, which tends to make the problems difficult to discuss / solve.

Also worth noting that one is used daily by everyone for slicing bread to carving wood and everything in between, the other is only/mainly used by the armed forces in war torn places.

[Looket]

I'm too lazy to look but I'm pretty sure I or someone else has mentioned the Orwellian nature of Swedish society. Just a quick follow-up prompted by this email I received today:



"Ratsit Plus - WHEN YOU WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING! 100% anonymous

We're now launching Ratsit Plus!

The service offers the opportunity to see the salaries of all Swedes directly on your screen. You'll also get notifications when people get an updated salary, move, get married, get a new car or have a birthday. It's an exciting service that's 100% anonymous, i.e. no can see who you're following or whose salary you're checking.

We hope you find this service interesting. Ratsit Plus will be continually expanded with more exciting and useful features. Both companies and individuals can use Ratsit Plus."

[amusingduck]

Wow, that's mental..

[jshell]

Looket said:

I'm too lazy to look but I'm pretty sure I or someone else has mentioned the Orwellian nature of Swedish society. Just a quick follow-up prompted by this email I received today:



"Ratsit Plus - WHEN YOU WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING! 100% anonymous

We're now launching Ratsit Plus!

The service offers the opportunity to see the salaries of all Swedes directly on your screen. You'll also get notifications when people get an updated salary, move, get married, get a new car or have a birthday. It's an exciting service that's 100% anonymous, i.e. no can see who you're following or whose salary you're checking.

We hope you find this service interesting. Ratsit Plus will be continually expanded with more exciting and useful features. Both companies and individuals can use Ratsit Plus."

Norway publishes all salaries but you need to log into the system now...

[rovermorris999]

I didn't realise it was so Big Brother. Sod that.

[jshell]

rovermorris999 said:

I didn't realise it was so Big Brother. Sod that.

Great story from a Norwegian friend. His mate went to Elkjop https://www.elkjop.no/ and bought a Plasma screen for cash. At the time around £2,500. The cops were waiting for him by the time he got home with it and demanded to know where the money came from. They're terrified of the black economy.

[anonymous-user]

jshell said:

Norway publishes all salaries but you need to log into the system now...

It’s not just people’s salaries it’s all your stuff and it’s values like your summerhouse etc

You can snoop on your neighbour but they get an email saying you’ve looked at their details.

Then the local paper publishes top tens in each town etc.

It’s to encourage collectivism and equality and to stop people wanting to get too far ahead of each other.

[Mastodon2]

El stovey said:

It’s not just people’s salaries it’s all your stuff and it’s values like your summerhouse etc

You can snoop on your neighbour but they get an email saying you’ve looked at their details.

Then the local paper publishes top tens in each town etc.

It’s to encourage collectivism and equality and to stop people wanting to get too far ahead of each other.

The Janteloven is strong. You don't really hear about all this dystopian stuff that goes on over there. The Chinese government would surely nod in approval of such systems and stifling social conventions.

[jshell]

El stovey said:

jshell said:

Norway publishes all salaries but you need to log into the system now...

It’s not just people’s salaries it’s all your stuff and it’s values like your summerhouse etc

You can snoop on your neighbour but they get an email saying you’ve looked at their details.

Then the local paper publishes top tens in each town etc.

It’s to encourage collectivism and equality and to stop people wanting to get too far ahead of each other.

Yup, had my salary published for a few years there together with my wealth that was subject to the annual wealth tax!

I always said to my colleagues that it was a Socialist country almost entirely populated by Capitalists. Brand culture, bigger house than Yow, Tesla, boat - all financed, of course!

Collectivisim exists in name, but the individuals love money, wealth and showing it off - perhaps that was just where I lived...