CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)

[RSTurboPaul]

sambucket said:

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Have there been any reports of a disproportionate amount of retail workers catching the virus?

Yes twice as likely to catch it IIRC. But I was more making the point, that if primary purpose of mask is not to protect the wearer, then it's a lot to expect voluntary adoption in UK. But once its mandated and passes tipping point, most people don't mind. And even feel more comfortable in shops. Which is half the point i guess.

That's my impression from over the wall anyhow.

Edited by sambucket on Sunday 12th July 16:00

I don't think I've spoken to a single person that 'doesn't mind' wearing a mask and 'feels more comfortable'. Most people I have spoken to have said they dread it being compulsory and probably won't go into the shops.

The couple of times I've had to wear it (medical procedure and opticians) it has been stifling and I have ripped it off the second I could.

[RSTurboPaul]

Spotted in the photoshop thread

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

CourtAgain said:

This rather informative pamphlet came through the door yesterday as exercise regulations change.

£130 on-the-spot fine if you deliberately silly walk in crowded areas

[anonymous-user]

RSTurboPaul said:

I don't think I've spoken to a single person that 'doesn't mind' wearing a mask and 'feels more comfortable'. Most people I have spoken to have said they dread it being compulsory and probably won't go into the shops.

The couple of times I've had to wear it (medical procedure and opticians) it has been stifling and I have ripped it off the second I could.

Sure but your friends are probably not representative of the average UK shopper who is scared of COVID.

f someone is terrified of catching covid, they will feel more comfortable shopping if everyone else is wearing a mask. And if wearing a mask themselves is a condition of entry, they are more likely to feel comfortable with that condition, if they are not in the minority. Given the choice they would probably not wear the mask in exchange for not looking silly, as terrified as they are, vanity comes first.

[Tyre Smoke]

If nobody has the virus, why are we wearing masks?

[grumbledoak]

Meanwhile in Leicester...

Leicester City Council are knocking on doors with COVID testing kits:
https://twitter.com/RussPLFC/status/12819349269008...

[hutchst]

Nobody is stupid enough to think we can actually eliminate this virus surely?

Edited by hutchst on Sunday 12th July 17:02

[ORD]

hutchst said:

Nobody is stupid enough to think we can acrually eliminate this virus surely?

Sambucket pretends to be that thick. Troll of epic proportions, however. Nobody sentient actually believes it.

[anonymous-user]

hutchst said:

Nobody is stupid enough to think we can actually eliminate this virus surely?

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 12th July 17:02

Vietnam hasn't had a domestic case in three months now. Loads of coutnries have low cases including Scotland, so not sure where the pessimism comes from.

[hutchst]

From Nicola Sturgeon

[anonymous-user]

hutchst said:

Nobody is stupid enough to think we can actually eliminate this virus surely?

Edited by hutchst on Sunday 12th July 17:02

is is thick to think it can, wherever we or it dies naturally it not really a stupid argument. SARS 1 faded away.

[rjg48]

ORD said:

Sambucket pretends to be that thick.

Tesla Fanboi!

He is that thiick.

[Condi]

The Spruce Goose said:

hutchst said:

Nobody is stupid enough to think we can actually eliminate this virus surely?

Edited by hutchst on Sunday 12th July 17:02

is is thick to think it can, wherever we or it dies naturally it not really a stupid argument. SARS 1 faded away.

So did MERS, swine flu and plenty of others.

This one seems quite infectious though, and with the amount of virus in both North and South America it will be much harder to isolate. Once international travel resumes in large numbers then by the time you've found an outbreak it could be re-established back into plenty of countries which were clean. NZ seem to be doing well at the moment, but the limited number of people exposed to the virus means they are more susceptible next time round.

I hope that our strategy has, somewhat accidentally, worked well and the UK population will have more natural immunity than some other countries which will put us in a better position than contries not so badly affected so far.

[anonymous-user]

Condi said:

So did MERS, swine flu and plenty of others.

This one seems quite infectious though,

i think past exposure to other coronavirus seems to make a big difference.

i remember reading about an all coronavirus vaccine, i think going forward that may be a strategy future outbreaks.

Article here if anyone interested 5 years old not sure how it developed.

https://microbiologysociety.org/blog/towards-a-uni...

[ORD]

It’s either very infectious, in which case herd immunity is the only possible end game at the moment, or it’s not very infectious, in which case we should just crack on.

There’s no credible argument for anything but opening up as fast as possible. It’s insane that it’s taking us months and months. By the time it’s normal again, we’ll
be into the flu season.

Utterly moronic approach.

[isaldiri]

Condi said:

So did MERS, swine flu and plenty of others.

Mers and sars were relatively much more containable as they weren't easily transmitted. Swine flu simply became a seasonal flu we face, it faded away through..... herd immunity.

I have said this earlier, the characteristics of sars-cov2 mean it's almost impossible it will not simply become the 5th endemic coronavirus circulating around in time.

[RSTurboPaul]

sambucket said:

RSTurboPaul said:

I don't think I've spoken to a single person that 'doesn't mind' wearing a mask and 'feels more comfortable'. Most people I have spoken to have said they dread it being compulsory and probably won't go into the shops.

The couple of times I've had to wear it (medical procedure and opticians) it has been stifling and I have ripped it off the second I could.

Sure but your friends are probably not representative of the average UK shopper who is scared of COVID.

f someone is terrified of catching covid, they will feel more comfortable shopping if everyone else is wearing a mask. And if wearing a mask themselves is a condition of entry, they are more likely to feel comfortable with that condition, if they are not in the minority. Given the choice they would probably not wear the mask in exchange for not looking silly, as terrified as they are, vanity comes first.

So the people with a brain and analytical capacity are required to subjugate themselves to intrusive and burdensome mandatory rules so that the people who get their news from facebook don't feel scared?

Why not have it so that those who are scared (or are vulnerable) can wear masks if they want, to feel like they are 'protecting' themselves, and everyone else can use their own judgement?

This position that we must all cater for the lowest common denominator, rather than uplifting those at the bottom, is dragging society down.

I'm not sure you can speak for the nation of 'average UK shoppers'. My mother most certainly is not a 'tin foil hat conspiracy theorist' or a raging sociopath, and neither are her friends, yet mask wearing is not something attractive to them.

[survivalist]

Condi said:

The Spruce Goose said:

hutchst said:

Nobody is stupid enough to think we can actually eliminate this virus surely?

Edited by hutchst on Sunday 12th July 17:02

is is thick to think it can, wherever we or it dies naturally it not really a stupid argument. SARS 1 faded away.

So did MERS, swine flu and plenty of others.

This one seems quite infectious though, and with the amount of virus in both North and South America it will be much harder to isolate. Once international travel resumes in large numbers then by the time you've found an outbreak it could be re-established back into plenty of countries which were clean. NZ seem to be doing well at the moment, but the limited number of people exposed to the virus means they are more susceptible next time round.

I hope that our strategy has, somewhat accidentally, worked well and the UK population will have more natural immunity than some other countries which will put us in a better position than contries not so badly affected so far.

A more pertinent question would be whether anyone believes human actions can eliminate the virus once you have 1000s of new daily cases.

My answer to this would be not without ridiculously draconian measures that hardly anyone would be willing to accept.

It may be possible to eliminate the virus in certain demographics, New Zealand and Vietnam seem to be succeeding, but as Australia shows us this approach could easily backfire.

If the virus does burn itself out then the holding pattern approach may work. Current infection levels suggest that it’s still finding sufficient goats though.

Specifically for the UK, I can’t see us suppressing it, especially as we are now heading in the opposite direction to lockdown. So the our only option is to live with it and try to shield the vulnerable.

[survivalist]

RSTurboPaul said:

sambucket said:

RSTurboPaul said:

I don't think I've spoken to a single person that 'doesn't mind' wearing a mask and 'feels more comfortable'. Most people I have spoken to have said they dread it being compulsory and probably won't go into the shops.

The couple of times I've had to wear it (medical procedure and opticians) it has been stifling and I have ripped it off the second I could.

Sure but your friends are probably not representative of the average UK shopper who is scared of COVID.

f someone is terrified of catching covid, they will feel more comfortable shopping if everyone else is wearing a mask. And if wearing a mask themselves is a condition of entry, they are more likely to feel comfortable with that condition, if they are not in the minority. Given the choice they would probably not wear the mask in exchange for not looking silly, as terrified as they are, vanity comes first.

This position that we must all cater for the lowest common denominator, rather than uplifting those at the bottom, is dragging society down.

Completely agree. I’ve argued that after the necessary capacity in intensive care was built, lockdown should be voluntary.

The response is always that we need to account for the lowest common denominator.

It’s nonsense. The vast majority of People should be responsible for their own decisions. If they make bad decisions then they face the consequences. It’s worrying how paternalistic the government is becoming.

[anonymous-user]

RSTurboPaul said:

So the people with a brain and analytical capacity are required to subjugate themselves to intrusive and burdensome mandatory rules so that the people who get their news from facebook don't feel scared?

Why not have it so that those who are scared (or are vulnerable) can wear masks if they want, to feel like they are 'protecting' themselves, and everyone else can use their own judgement?

This position that we must all cater for the lowest common denominator, rather than uplifting those at the bottom, is dragging society down.

I'm not sure you can speak for the nation of 'average UK shoppers'. My mother most certainly is not a 'tin foil hat conspiracy theorist' or a raging sociopath, and neither are her friends, yet mask wearing is not something attractive to them.

Masks don't much protect the wearer, so letting people wear masks ' to feel like they are 'protecting' themselves' makes no sense. They are intended to reduce spread at a group level.

Nobody wants to wear masks, and it's attractive to nobody. But being supportive of mandated masks is a different thing.

Here is the poll from the daily mail article much discussed here yesterday:

[anonymous-user]

ORD said:

There’s no credible argument for anything but opening up as fast as possible. It’s insane that it’s taking us months and months. By the time it’s normal again, we’ll
be into the flu season.

Utterly moronic approach.

Well that was Trump's strategy and look at America now.