Boris Johnson Inept

[Digga]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Digga said:

FN2TypeR said:

funkyrobot said:

Wow. This country will continue to be fked.

We need a GE.

What would that solve? Nuthin, is my bet.

No.

I think it a very dangerous assumption that that would improve anything at all.

I doubt very much whether either of the (previously) main two parties will ever form a majority government again. The stalemate of a coalition would, in these times of change, be a crippling disadvantage.

As opposed to the unassailable mandate and unity that the party in Government currently enjoys....

Mate, it is unarguably a shower of st, but it smells of roses compared to the future of British politics, believe me. It does not look good.

[Randy Winkman]

Supercilious Sid said:

Integroo said:

What is the shortest term of any Prime Minister?

Could BoJo beat it?

They also predicted that about Trump. They were wrong too.

Do the Republicans have the same tendency to snipe at their leader the same way that the Conservatives do?

[Tuna]

Fittster said:

People have given up on the center forcing parties to the left and right because centerist policies have failed to address the slow down in growth / productivity.

What policies do centerist politicians have to offer? Simply saying vote for me, I'm neither too left or right isn't a huge vote winner.

Exactly. The same applies to people who only promise to keep things as they are - it doesn't matter how 'nice' things might be, people look for improvements, and are especially upset if what improvements they do see appear to fall on others (eg. rise in inequality, work shifting to the cities etc. etc.) This 'false security' doesn't get votes. and was the failure of Cameron and the LibDems, May and Chukka's ill-fated experiment.

You could look on the whole Brexit thing being a failure of centrism to acknowledge or even recognise it's own limitations.

[bitchstewie]

amusingduck said:

bhstewie said:

Right on cue - it's all someone else's fault, democracy failed them, it's all because of remainer traitors, whatever pile of excuses people choose to make to justify their choice to vote for these people.

Life's a bit more nuanced that you can sometimes get across in black and white, but some things are really pretty simple.

I'm not expecting people to agree with me.

Seems you're "right on cue" then? As you've reduced the argument to "it's wrong" (bold), aka "it's all someone else's fault for voting the wrong way"?

To a degree yes I am and yes I have.

When people vote for the more extreme ends of the spectrum and are proud to say "I support this" I might not agree with them but it's an honest position.

When you have people voting for grubby politicians with grubby views whilst trying to distance themselves from all of that and saying "But I had to vote for them because we're still in the EU" whilst turning a blind eye to all the grubby stuff that they are fully aware of I think it's a very dishonest position.

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

Fittster said:

People have given up on the center forcing parties to the left and right because centerist policies have failed to address the slow down in growth / productivity.

What policies do centerist politicians have to offer? Simply saying vote for me, I'm neither too left or right isn't a huge vote winner.

Exactly. The same applies to people who only promise to keep things as they are - it doesn't matter how 'nice' things might be, people look for improvements, and are especially upset if what improvements they do see appear to fall on others (eg. rise in inequality, work shifting to the cities etc. etc.) This 'false security' doesn't get votes. and was the failure of Cameron and the LibDems, May and Chukka's ill-fated experiment.

You could look on the whole Brexit thing being a failure of centrism to acknowledge or even recognise it's own limitations.

This is just wishful thinking.

When was the last time a non centrist party was in government?

Do you think BJs government won’t be centrist? He’s just another Cameron but funnier. Britain is doing great. The economy is booming it’s a safe country, income inequality isn’t too bad, there are opportunities for those willing to take them.

There will always be people who feel forgotten or feel disillusioned with politics or unhappy with their lot. You can’t keep everyone happy. The answer isn’t by thinking Boris or Farage or politicians or political parties can represent you or help you in any way. All they exist to do is to get re-elected. They’re no more interested in you than your phone company or electricity provider.

Anyone unhappy and thinking Boris (or brexit) or a slight move to the right, is going to improve their lot is deluded. The only way to improve your lot is by doing it yourself by getting some exercise or moving house or changing job or getting professional help.

Unfortunately the fact is that you guys banging on about centrism failing you will still be unhappy regardless who is running the country.

[amusingduck]

I think you've answered this before Stovey, but could you explain why you voted Leave please? I can't work it out from your posts

[diametric123]

El stovey said:

This is just wishful thinking.

When was the last time a non centrist party was in government?

Do you think BJs government won’t be centrist? He’s just another Cameron but funnier. Britain is doing great. The economy is booming it’s a safe country, income inequality isn’t too bad, there are opportunities for those willing to take them.

There will always be people who feel forgotten or feel disillusioned with politics or unhappy with their lot. You can’t keep everyone happy. The answer isn’t by thinking Boris or Farage or politicians or political parties can represent you or help you in any way. All they exist to do is to get re-elected. They’re no more interested in you than your phone company or electricity provider.

Anyone unhappy and thinking Boris (or brexit) or a slight move to the right, is going to improve their lot is deluded. The only way to improve your lot is by doing it yourself by getting some exercise or moving house or changing job or getting professional help.

Unfortunately the fact is that you guys banging on about centrism failing you will still be unhappy regardless who is running the country.

+1
This man talks sense

[bitchstewie]

El stovey said:

This is just wishful thinking.

When was the last time a non centrist party was in government?

Do you think BJs government won’t be centrist? He’s just another Cameron but funnier. Britain is doing great. The economy is booming it’s a safe country, income inequality isn’t too bad, there are opportunities for those willing to take them.

There will always be people who feel forgotten or feel disillusioned with politics or unhappy with their lot. You can’t keep everyone happy. The answer isn’t by thinking Boris or Farage or politicians or political parties can represent you or help you in any way. All they exist to do is to get re-elected. They’re no more interested in you than your phone company or electricity provider.

Anyone unhappy and thinking Boris (or brexit) or a slight move to the right, is going to improve their lot is deluded. The only way to improve your lot is by doing it yourself by getting some exercise or moving house or changing job or getting professional help.

Unfortunately the fact is that you guys banging on about centrism failing you will still be unhappy regardless who is running the country.

Nail on head.

[Tuna]

El stovey said:

This is just wishful thinking.

When was the last time a non centrist party was in government?

Do you think BJs government won’t be centrist? He’s just another Cameron but funnier. Britain is doing great. The economy is booming it’s a safe country, income inequality isn’t too bad, there are opportunities for those willing to take them.

There will always be people who feel forgotten or feel disillusioned with politics or unhappy with their lot. You can’t keep everyone happy. The answer isn’t by thinking Boris or Farage or politicians or political parties can represent you or help you in any way. All they exist to do is to get re-elected. They’re no more interested in you than your phone company or electricity provider.

Anyone unhappy and thinking Boris (or brexit) or a slight move to the right, is going to improve their lot is deluded. The only way to improve your lot is by doing it yourself by getting some exercise or moving house or changing job or getting professional help.

Unfortunately the fact is that you guys banging on about centrism failing you will still be unhappy regardless who is running the country.

You miss my point by a country mile. I'm not saying Boris is the answer to anything - I'm saying him ending up as PM is the result of centrism failing to make its case. And absolutely, neither Boris nor Corbyn offer any solutions - but the fact that centrists have been in power for decades and still left a significant portion of the population feeling unrepresented and unrewarded is entirely the fault of the centrists. It's ridiculous in the extreme that the people now wailing and complaining are blaming the populists for having a better message than them. Even if it's false.

You can give people cake as much as you like, it doesn't automatically make them grateful.

Edited by Tuna on Tuesday 23 July 14:35

[anonymous-user]

bhstewie said:

El stovey said:

This is just wishful thinking.

When was the last time a non centrist party was in government?

Do you think BJs government won’t be centrist? He’s just another Cameron but funnier. Britain is doing great. The economy is booming it’s a safe country, income inequality isn’t too bad, there are opportunities for those willing to take them.

There will always be people who feel forgotten or feel disillusioned with politics or unhappy with their lot. You can’t keep everyone happy. The answer isn’t by thinking Boris or Farage or politicians or political parties can represent you or help you in any way. All they exist to do is to get re-elected. They’re no more interested in you than your phone company or electricity provider.

Anyone unhappy and thinking Boris (or brexit) or a slight move to the right, is going to improve their lot is deluded. The only way to improve your lot is by doing it yourself by getting some exercise or moving house or changing job or getting professional help.

Unfortunately the fact is that you guys banging on about centrism failing you will still be unhappy regardless who is running the country.

Nail on head.

+3

Nicely summarised.

The vocally disaffected are frequently the least self determinant preferring instead to blame others which in a country where we enjoy a huge ability to chart our own paths to success (however one defines it) is rather pathetic.

[anonymous-user]

amusingduck said:

I think you've answered this before Stovey, but could you explain why you voted Leave please? I can't work it out from your posts

Basically, I don’t want to live in a federal Europe with the central decision making coming from an unelected body.

I think staying in the EU will lead to this federation and the referendum only gave stay or leave as options.

The EU shows no signs of becoming more democratic so it’s a case of choosing the least worst option.

I’m reasonably happy at the moment with the EU and the economic integration but don’t want to be in the inevitable political union.

If the EU was aiming to stay like it is now and as more of a confederation and was more democratic I’d have voted remain.

[Digga]

El stovey said:

amusingduck said:

I think you've answered this before Stovey, but could you explain why you voted Leave please? I can't work it out from your posts

Basically, I don’t want to live in a federal Europe with the central decision making coming from an unelected body.

I think staying in the EU will lead to this federation and the referendum only gave stay or leave as options.

The EU shows no signs of becoming more democratic so it’s a case of choosing the least worst option.

I’m reasonably happy at the moment with the EU and the economic integration but don’t want to be in the inevitable political union.

If the EU was aiming to stay like it is now and as more of a confederation and was more democratic I’d have voted remain.

Well said. All this and the very serious and impending issues with the Euro which I do believe, the UK being part of the EU would leave us with greater potential exposure. Not least, if other major EU economies tank as a result, who will pick up their tab for the budget?...

See here for details: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[diametric123]

El stovey said:

Basically, I don’t want to live in a federal Europe with the central decision making coming from an unelected body.

I think staying in the EU will lead to this federation and the referendum only gave stay or leave as options.

The EU shows no signs of becoming more democratic so it’s a case of choosing the least worst option.

I’m reasonably happy at the moment with the EU and the economic integration but don’t want to be in the inevitable political union.

If the EU was aiming to stay like it is now and as more of a confederation and was more democratic I’d have voted remain.

I’m going to vote for you - you talk more (balanced) sense than I’ve heard in a long time

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

You miss my point by a country mile. I'm not saying Boris is the answer to anything - I'm saying him ending up as PM is the result of centrism failing to make its case. And absolutely, neither Boris nor Corbyn offer any solutions - but the fact that centrists have been in power for decades and still left a significant portion of the population feeling unrepresented and unrewarded is entirely the fault of the centrists. It's ridiculous in the extreme that the people now wailing and complaining are blaming the populists for having a better message than them. Even if it's false.

You can give people cake as much as you like, it doesn't automatically make them grateful.

Edited by Tuna on Tuesday 23 July 14:35

But Boris is another centrist. What do you think he’s going to do that’s any different from Cameron or Blair.

He’s just all things to everyone at the moment because he’s been able to warble a load vagueness making everyone think he might be their man.

Centrism hasn’t failed at all. If people feel unrewarded and unrepresented then its not because of centrist politicians, it’s their own fault for linking their well being to politics and politicians in the first place.

Politicians won’t improve your lot. What exactly do you think different politicians will do that will honestly improve your situation? You control your well being not them.

[amusingduck]

El stovey said:

Basically, I don’t want to live in a federal Europe with the central decision making coming from an unelected body.

I think staying in the EU will lead to this federation and the referendum only gave stay or leave as options.

The EU shows no signs of becoming more democratic so it’s a case of choosing the least worst option.

I’m reasonably happy at the moment with the EU and the economic integration but don’t want to be in the inevitable political union.

If the EU was aiming to stay like it is now and as more of a confederation and was more democratic I’d have voted remain.

Thanks

[Fittster]

El stovey said:

Tuna said:

Fittster said:

People have given up on the center forcing parties to the left and right because centerist policies have failed to address the slow down in growth / productivity.

What policies do centerist politicians have to offer? Simply saying vote for me, I'm neither too left or right isn't a huge vote winner.

Exactly. The same applies to people who only promise to keep things as they are - it doesn't matter how 'nice' things might be, people look for improvements, and are especially upset if what improvements they do see appear to fall on others (eg. rise in inequality, work shifting to the cities etc. etc.) This 'false security' doesn't get votes. and was the failure of Cameron and the LibDems, May and Chukka's ill-fated experiment.

You could look on the whole Brexit thing being a failure of centrism to acknowledge or even recognise it's own limitations.

This is just wishful thinking.

When was the last time a non centrist party was in government?

Do you think BJs government won’t be centrist? He’s just another Cameron but funnier. Britain is doing great. The economy is booming it’s a safe country, income inequality isn’t too bad, there are opportunities for those willing to take them.

There will always be people who feel forgotten or feel disillusioned with politics or unhappy with their lot. You can’t keep everyone happy. The answer isn’t by thinking Boris or Farage or politicians or political parties can represent you or help you in any way. All they exist to do is to get re-elected. They’re no more interested in you than your phone company or electricity provider.

Anyone unhappy and thinking Boris (or brexit) or a slight move to the right, is going to improve their lot is deluded. The only way to improve your lot is by doing it yourself by getting some exercise or moving house or changing job or getting professional help.

Unfortunately the fact is that you guys banging on about centrism failing you will still be unhappy regardless who is running the country.

By what measures is the UK economy booming? At best you can point to employment figures. I'll counter that these are low paying, low skill jobs and key measure of economic growth such as GDP and Productivity are awful and have been since 2008 (and you have to go back decades to see really nice growth figures).

Until you get productivity moving in the right direction you aren't going to make many people better off.

[Fittster]

El stovey said:

amusingduck said:

I think you've answered this before Stovey, but could you explain why you voted Leave please? I can't work it out from your posts

Basically, I don’t want to live in a federal Europe with the central decision making coming from an unelected body.

I think staying in the EU will lead to this federation and the referendum only gave stay or leave as options.

The EU shows no signs of becoming more democratic so it’s a case of choosing the least worst option.

I’m reasonably happy at the moment with the EU and the economic integration but don’t want to be in the inevitable political union.

If the EU was aiming to stay like it is now and as more of a confederation and was more democratic I’d have voted remain.

What is the unelected body you are concerned about?

[sugerbear]

Fittster said:

El stovey said:

amusingduck said:

I think you've answered this before Stovey, but could you explain why you voted Leave please? I can't work it out from your posts

Basically, I don’t want to live in a federal Europe with the central decision making coming from an unelected body.

I think staying in the EU will lead to this federation and the referendum only gave stay or leave as options.

The EU shows no signs of becoming more democratic so it’s a case of choosing the least worst option.

I’m reasonably happy at the moment with the EU and the economic integration but don’t want to be in the inevitable political union.

If the EU was aiming to stay like it is now and as more of a confederation and was more democratic I’d have voted remain.

What is the unelected body you are concerned about?

I would like to know tabout this unelected body as well. Something about a recent European parliment election that a certain Mr Farage and his mates have all been democratically elected as MEP's to represent their constituents interests.

[Dr Jekyll]

sugerbear said:

I would like to know tabout this unelected body as well. Something about a recent European parliment election that a certain Mr Farage and his mates have all been democratically elected as MEP's to represent their constituents interests. sit in a very expensive time wasting talking shop designed to give a superficial appearance of democracy to the gullible while distracting attention from those who actually wield the power.

EFA

[Tuna]

El stovey said:

But Boris is another centrist. What do you think he’s going to do that’s any different from Cameron or Blair.

It's more a question of how he's perceived - and you might notice from the great outpouring of grief right now that people think he's going to do something different from May's limbo-land status quo.

El stovey said:

He’s just all things to everyone at the moment because he’s been able to warble a load vagueness making everyone think he might be their man.

Centrism hasn’t failed at all. If people feel unrewarded and unrepresented then its not because of centrist politicians, it’s their own fault for linking their well being to politics and politicians in the first place.

This last bit... seriously? If you do all the right things and people tell you to **** off, you've not - by definition - done all the right things, no matter how righteous you may feel. Centrists had the opportunity to deliver on all of their promises, but then austerity and inequality and dissent and all the other things that people like Corbyn claim they have a solution to still happened. Mysteriously none of those are apparently the fault of centrist policies. And it's not like we can say "Oh well, at least the trains run on time" - because demonstrably they don't.

If a politician cannot get themselves re-elected they cannot say "It's the people's fault for not understanding me, or being more grateful." It's their fault for not understanding the people.