Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 6)
Discussion
Not-The-Messiah said:
Then the same argument can be made at an individual level.
So can I ask how you at the individual level are leading by example? Have you given up all air travel, got rid of all your fossil fuel cars, disconnected your gas supply and installed a heat pump and so on?
Whilst I agree with the sentiment, surely for some changes the calculations need consideration. Financial cost aside, what cost to the environment of manufacturing heat pump, digging ground manufacturing pipework. running pump etc etc - it could be worse than 30 years of gas use?So can I ask how you at the individual level are leading by example? Have you given up all air travel, got rid of all your fossil fuel cars, disconnected your gas supply and installed a heat pump and so on?
Fastpedeller said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
Then the same argument can be made at an individual level.
So can I ask how you at the individual level are leading by example? Have you given up all air travel, got rid of all your fossil fuel cars, disconnected your gas supply and installed a heat pump and so on?
Whilst I agree with the sentiment, surely for some changes the calculations need consideration. Financial cost aside, what cost to the environment of manufacturing heat pump, digging ground manufacturing pipework. running pump etc etc - it could be worse than 30 years of gas use?So can I ask how you at the individual level are leading by example? Have you given up all air travel, got rid of all your fossil fuel cars, disconnected your gas supply and installed a heat pump and so on?
I understand that heat pump installations can be notably susceptible to the specifics of local ground chemistry and water supply conditions. Is that correct?
LongQ said:
Fastpedeller said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
Then the same argument can be made at an individual level.
So can I ask how you at the individual level are leading by example? Have you given up all air travel, got rid of all your fossil fuel cars, disconnected your gas supply and installed a heat pump and so on?
Whilst I agree with the sentiment, surely for some changes the calculations need consideration. Financial cost aside, what cost to the environment of manufacturing heat pump, digging ground manufacturing pipework. running pump etc etc - it could be worse than 30 years of gas use?So can I ask how you at the individual level are leading by example? Have you given up all air travel, got rid of all your fossil fuel cars, disconnected your gas supply and installed a heat pump and so on?
I understand that heat pump installations can be notably susceptible to the specifics of local ground chemistry and water supply conditions. Is that correct?
chrispmartha said:
Diderot said:
chrispmartha said:
Diderot said:
El stovey said:
chrispmartha said:
Diderot said:
El stovey said:
Diderot said:
kerplunk said:
It's quite pathetic to copy and paste a sourceless list and demand others refute it, but you've done as you were told at wattsup like a good little propaganda bot.
"Have you ever wanted a nice, compact image you could share on social media whenever you need to put some eco-worrier in his/her/its place?"
Sourceless? You either have a very short memory (for a good number of claims on that list) re too lazy to look them up. "Have you ever wanted a nice, compact image you could share on social media whenever you need to put some eco-worrier in his/her/its place?"
The comments section even points out some of the made up claims on the list that can actually be checked. I.e. where the statements were actually attributed to anyone specific.
Maybe it’s more deep(s) fake news “to highlight” something.
https://youtu.be/MsioIw4bvzI
Gore didn’t predict anything or say it ‘would’ be.
Edited by chrispmartha on Saturday 25th January 16:28
The other nuance to this, which is never clarified, is that when people like Gore say ice free, the science isn’t even suggesting completely ice free during the summer. Sounds more dramatic though.
Your little copy and paste image was incorrect
Diderot said:
The more salient point is that all the alarmist hyperbole and unsubstantiated claptrap in the world plopping out of the mouths of nonagenarian TV presenters, hypocritical actors, minor - but majorly misguided - royals and manipulated 16 year olds doesn’t change reality. The world ain’t going to end because of some remarkably modest warming within the bounds of natural variation. Crisis what crisis? Emergency what emergency? They doth protest too much methinks.
Well that is a relief. No need to worry about what experts might say when we have such sages on car forums who know the truth. Esceptico said:
Tony427 said:
What is the earths correct temperature and what date did it occur?
What’s the most stupid question we’ve had on this thread?...oh hang on...What chance do climatologists have when we've got such a wealth of expertise from AGW sceptics on this site?
This is turning into a below par drunken pub debate.
Diderot said:
chrispmartha said:
Diderot said:
chrispmartha said:
Diderot said:
El stovey said:
chrispmartha said:
Diderot said:
El stovey said:
Diderot said:
kerplunk said:
It's quite pathetic to copy and paste a sourceless list and demand others refute it, but you've done as you were told at wattsup like a good little propaganda bot.
"Have you ever wanted a nice, compact image you could share on social media whenever you need to put some eco-worrier in his/her/its place?"
Sourceless? You either have a very short memory (for a good number of claims on that list) re too lazy to look them up. "Have you ever wanted a nice, compact image you could share on social media whenever you need to put some eco-worrier in his/her/its place?"
The comments section even points out some of the made up claims on the list that can actually be checked. I.e. where the statements were actually attributed to anyone specific.
Maybe it’s more deep(s) fake news “to highlight” something.
https://youtu.be/MsioIw4bvzI
Gore didn’t predict anything or say it ‘would’ be.
Edited by chrispmartha on Saturday 25th January 16:28
The other nuance to this, which is never clarified, is that when people like Gore say ice free, the science isn’t even suggesting completely ice free during the summer. Sounds more dramatic though.
Your little copy and paste image was incorrect
Because that one section showed you to be incorrect, I had, unlike you, provided a link to the full article for anyone wanting to read it.
I even posted a link to the video of his actual presentation
Edited by chrispmartha on Sunday 26th January 08:18
Esceptico said:
Tony427 said:
What is the earths correct temperature and what date did it occur?
What’s the most stupid question we’ve had on this thread?...oh hang on...We are heading towards engineering the temperature of the earth, think of it like a thermostat what temperature do you prefer ?
Remember globally does not mean locally and crops may fail in some areas due to the cold and shorter growing season,
the USA has had extremely cold temperatures over the last few years, but that will not matter if we can control a hypothetical number that is the global temperature .
https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/12/05...
Esceptico said:
Diderot said:
The more salient point is that all the alarmist hyperbole and unsubstantiated claptrap in the world plopping out of the mouths of nonagenarian TV presenters, hypocritical actors, minor - but majorly misguided - royals and manipulated 16 year olds doesn’t change reality. The world ain’t going to end because of some remarkably modest warming within the bounds of natural variation. Crisis what crisis? Emergency what emergency? They doth protest too much methinks.
Well that is a relief. No need to worry about what experts might say when we have such sages on car forums who know the truth. chrispmartha said:
Diderot said:
chrispmartha said:
Diderot said:
chrispmartha said:
Diderot said:
El stovey said:
chrispmartha said:
Diderot said:
El stovey said:
Diderot said:
kerplunk said:
It's quite pathetic to copy and paste a sourceless list and demand others refute it, but you've done as you were told at wattsup like a good little propaganda bot.
"Have you ever wanted a nice, compact image you could share on social media whenever you need to put some eco-worrier in his/her/its place?"
Sourceless? You either have a very short memory (for a good number of claims on that list) re too lazy to look them up. "Have you ever wanted a nice, compact image you could share on social media whenever you need to put some eco-worrier in his/her/its place?"
The comments section even points out some of the made up claims on the list that can actually be checked. I.e. where the statements were actually attributed to anyone specific.
Maybe it’s more deep(s) fake news “to highlight” something.
https://youtu.be/MsioIw4bvzI
Gore didn’t predict anything or say it ‘would’ be.
Edited by chrispmartha on Saturday 25th January 16:28
The other nuance to this, which is never clarified, is that when people like Gore say ice free, the science isn’t even suggesting completely ice free during the summer. Sounds more dramatic though.
Your little copy and paste image was incorrect
Because that one section showed you to be incorrect, I had, unlike you, provided a link to the full article for anyone wanting to read it.
I even posted a link to the video of his actual presentation
Edited by chrispmartha on Sunday 26th January 08:18
That is assuming one views Snopes interpretation and reading as the truth ...
To save people the trouble reading multiple paragraphs, here’s the conclusion of that article:
“What's True
In the late 2000s, Al Gore made a series of high-profile statements suggesting the possibility that Arctic sea ice could be completely gone during the summer by around 2013 or 2014.
What's False
Gore did not himself make these predictions but said (in some cases erroneously) that others had, and he never referred to a year-long lack of ice for both poles but instead largely referenced Arctic sea ice in the summer.”
[....]
“Arctic sea ice is without question on a declining trend, but Gore definitely erred in his use of preliminary projections and misrepresentations of research. Because Gore himself did not claim to have made these predictions, however, and because his statements applied specifically to summer sea ice in the Arctic, we rate the claim that Gore “predicted the ice caps will melt by 2014” as a mixture.”
Beyond this point, the list produced by WUWT does not mention ‘poles’ just the arctic. And as the Snopes article makes clear, the initial claim by Gore was ‘an icefree arctic’:
“On 13 December 2008, Gore appeared to have made a similarly flawed statement while speaking at the opening of a German natural history museum. Although transcripts and clear audio are hard to find, one video of the event documented Gore’s saying that “The entire North polar ice cap may well be completely gone in 5 years.” Given the dates presented, it is likely that Gore was once again referring to Maslowski’s data, and unless he preceded his statement with some qualification not captured by the video, Gore’s statement either intentionally or accidentally neglected to mention that this prediction, aggressive as it was, concerned only summer sea ice.”
All of which make sGore a worthy recipient of a Nobel Prize.
Diderot said:
Esceptico said:
Diderot said:
The more salient point is that all the alarmist hyperbole and unsubstantiated claptrap in the world plopping out of the mouths of nonagenarian TV presenters, hypocritical actors, minor - but majorly misguided - royals and manipulated 16 year olds doesn’t change reality. The world ain’t going to end because of some remarkably modest warming within the bounds of natural variation. Crisis what crisis? Emergency what emergency? They doth protest too much methinks.
Well that is a relief. No need to worry about what experts might say when we have such sages on car forums who know the truth. 
It's excruciating to see you relentlessly digging these holes you can't get out of because you don't understand the arguments you've copied from other people.
Watching you respond is like watching a student panicking when asked by a teacher to expand on the paragraph they'd copied and pasted from Wikipedia but didn't actually read.
Edited by durbster on Sunday 26th January 10:04
Fastpedeller said:
Tony427 said:
What is the earths correct temperature and what date did it occur?
This man asks a pertinent question which nobody can answer, but some claim they know the answer (ie less than it is at the moment) 
Diderot said:
It’s a strange hill to die on anyway, if Al Gore did predict anything it doesn’t confirm or deny AGW it just means Al Gore is a bit of a wally.
If you’re happy that you think you've somehow had s big gotcha moment by posting a photo of a list from an advocacy site well good for you but I think I’ll leave it there with you.
durbster said:
Diderot said:
Esceptico said:
Diderot said:
The more salient point is that all the alarmist hyperbole and unsubstantiated claptrap in the world plopping out of the mouths of nonagenarian TV presenters, hypocritical actors, minor - but majorly misguided - royals and manipulated 16 year olds doesn’t change reality. The world ain’t going to end because of some remarkably modest warming within the bounds of natural variation. Crisis what crisis? Emergency what emergency? They doth protest too much methinks.
Well that is a relief. No need to worry about what experts might say when we have such sages on car forums who know the truth. It's excruciating to see you relentlessly digging these holes you can't get out of because you don't understand the arguments you've copied from other people.
Watching you respond is like watching a student panicking when asked by a teacher to expand on the paragraph they'd copied and pasted from Wikipedia but didn't actually read.
Edited by durbster on Sunday 26th January 10:04
durbster said:
Fastpedeller said:
Tony427 said:
What is the earths correct temperature and what date did it occur?
This man asks a pertinent question which nobody can answer, but some claim they know the answer (ie less than it is at the moment) Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff