Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 6)

[dickymint]

Vanden Saab said:

durbster said:

Fastpedeller said:

Tony427 said:

What is the earths correct temperature and what date did it occur?

This man asks a pertinent question which nobody can answer, but some claim they know the answer (ie less than it is at the moment)

It's a vacuous, nonsense "gotcha" question that has been asked and answered roughly 2.6 million times in these threads.

For those who don't slavishly read every post why not just give us a temperature and the date it was correct as it has been answered and is so obvious.

Exactly and while he's at - who are we to trust to have their finger on this mystical thermostat?

[LongQ]

durbster said:

It's a vacuous, nonsense "gotcha" question that has been asked and answered roughly 2.6 million times in these threads.

Is that 2.6 million number a "roughly" figure as applied by the accuracy rules of climate science estimates?

Or perhaps the mathematical and numeracy skills of some politicians?

[Diderot]

chrispmartha said:

Diderot said:

So Al Gore didn’t ‘predict’ anything.

It’s a strange hill to die on anyway, if Al Gore did predict anything it doesn’t confirm or deny AGW it just means Al Gore is a bit of a wally.

If you’re happy that you think you've somehow had s big gotcha moment by posting a photo of a list from an advocacy site well good for you but I think I’ll leave it there with you.

Semantics. Gore repeatedly repeated the prediction (which of course turned out to be erroneous, unfounded and a misrepresentation of the science). And yes I agree he is a wally, and a dangerous one at that. A wally who is not deserving of a Nobel gong.

[kerplunk]

Vanden Saab said:

durbster said:

Fastpedeller said:

Tony427 said:

What is the earths correct temperature and what date did it occur?

This man asks a pertinent question which nobody can answer, but some claim they know the answer (ie less than it is at the moment)

It's a vacuous, nonsense "gotcha" question that has been asked and answered roughly 2.6 million times in these threads.

For those who don't slavishly read every post why not just give us a temperature and the date it was correct as it has been answered and is so obvious.

Right so when durbs said it's been answered you think he means with a temperature and date? Even though he said it's a vacuous nonsense gotcha question.

Reading comprehension not your strong point I guess.

[anonymous-user]

Diderot said:

chrispmartha said:

Diderot said:

So Al Gore didn’t ‘predict’ anything.

It’s a strange hill to die on anyway, if Al Gore did predict anything it doesn’t confirm or deny AGW it just means Al Gore is a bit of a wally.

If you’re happy that you think you've somehow had s big gotcha moment by posting a photo of a list from an advocacy site well good for you but I think I’ll leave it there with you.

Semantics. Gore repeatedly repeated the prediction (which of course turned out to be erroneous, unfounded and a misrepresentation of the science). And yes I agree he is a wally, and a dangerous one at that. A wally who is not deserving of a Nobel gong.

Good, so you finally agree Gore didn’t say what you said he did from deeps list from wattsupwiththat that YOU were asking people to refute in the first place. Which started all this.

You could have saved yourself all the bother if you’d actually read the links you were given yesterday even watched Gore say it on the video provided to you.

[anonymous-user]

dickymint said:

Vanden Saab said:

durbster said:

Fastpedeller said:

Tony427 said:

What is the earths correct temperature and what date did it occur?

This man asks a pertinent question which nobody can answer, but some claim they know the answer (ie less than it is at the moment)

It's a vacuous, nonsense "gotcha" question that has been asked and answered roughly 2.6 million times in these threads.

For those who don't slavishly read every post why not just give us a temperature and the date it was correct as it has been answered and is so obvious.

Exactly and while he's at - who are we to trust to have their finger on this mystical thermostat?

It’s a silly straw man question that can’t be answered as there isn’t an ideal temperature for the earth.

It’s designed so deniers can glibly say, “nobody knows what the temperature should be so it’s all bks.”

Much like posting up fake news photos to say XR were arrested for arson or prediction lists that aren’t true.

[LongQ]

El stovey said:

It’s a silly straw man question that can’t be answered as there isn’t an ideal temperature for the earth.

[Diderot]

El stovey said:

Diderot said:

chrispmartha said:

Diderot said:

So Al Gore didn’t ‘predict’ anything.

It’s a strange hill to die on anyway, if Al Gore did predict anything it doesn’t confirm or deny AGW it just means Al Gore is a bit of a wally.

If you’re happy that you think you've somehow had s big gotcha moment by posting a photo of a list from an advocacy site well good for you but I think I’ll leave it there with you.

Semantics. Gore repeatedly repeated the prediction (which of course turned out to be erroneous, unfounded and a misrepresentation of the science). And yes I agree he is a wally, and a dangerous one at that. A wally who is not deserving of a Nobel gong.

Good, so you finally agree Gore didn’t say what you said he did from deeps list from wattsupwiththat that YOU were asking people to refute in the first place. Which started all this.

You could have saved yourself all the bother if you’d actually read the links you were given yesterday even watched Gore say it on the video provided to you.

Can you read? Gore did say the artic would be ice free in the summer! The nuance is whether *he* predicted it. Point is he repeated the prediction a number of times . The prediction was erroneous of course.

[chrispmartha]

Diderot said:

El stovey said:

Diderot said:

chrispmartha said:

Diderot said:

So Al Gore didn’t ‘predict’ anything.

It’s a strange hill to die on anyway, if Al Gore did predict anything it doesn’t confirm or deny AGW it just means Al Gore is a bit of a wally.

If you’re happy that you think you've somehow had s big gotcha moment by posting a photo of a list from an advocacy site well good for you but I think I’ll leave it there with you.

Semantics. Gore repeatedly repeated the prediction (which of course turned out to be erroneous, unfounded and a misrepresentation of the science). And yes I agree he is a wally, and a dangerous one at that. A wally who is not deserving of a Nobel gong.

Good, so you finally agree Gore didn’t say what you said he did from deeps list from wattsupwiththat that YOU were asking people to refute in the first place. Which started all this.

You could have saved yourself all the bother if you’d actually read the links you were given yesterday even watched Gore say it on the video provided to you.

Can you read? Gore did say the artic would be ice free in the summer! The nuance is whether *he* predicted it. Point is he repeated the prediction a number of times . The prediction was erroneous of course.

Can you read? gore didn’t say it ‘would’ at all.

There’s no nuance about it, the silly list posted has proven to have spurious (at best) claims on it

[anonymous-user]

chrispmartha said:

Can you read? gore didn’t say it ‘would’ at all.

There’s no nuance about it, the silly list posted has proven to have spurious (at best) claims on it

A list that Diderot asked people to refute in the first place and most claims aren’t even attributed to anyone.

[durbster]

Diderot said:

Can you read? Gore did say the artic would be ice free in the summer! The nuance is whether *he* predicted it. Point is he repeated the prediction a number of times . The prediction was erroneous of course.

Has it occurred to you that nobody really cares what Al Gore's predictions are, and trying to win this argument is not going to save you from your disastrous WUWT list.

Al Gore is not an arctic researcher. Why don't you find out what their predictions were and see how that goes for you.

[kerplunk]

durbster said:

Diderot said:

Can you read? Gore did say the artic would be ice free in the summer! The nuance is whether *he* predicted it. Point is he repeated the prediction a number of times . The prediction was erroneous of course.

Has it occurred to you that nobody really cares what Al Gore's predictions are, and trying to win this argument is not going to save you from your disastrous WUWT list.

Al Gore is not an arctic researcher. Why don't you find out what their predictions were and see how that goes for you.

Just the usual pea-rolling. The big picture for the arctic sea ice of course is that it has declined much faster than generally expected (so far).

[Diderot]

chrispmartha said:

Diderot said:

El stovey said:

Diderot said:

chrispmartha said:

Diderot said:

So Al Gore didn’t ‘predict’ anything.

It’s a strange hill to die on anyway, if Al Gore did predict anything it doesn’t confirm or deny AGW it just means Al Gore is a bit of a wally.

If you’re happy that you think you've somehow had s big gotcha moment by posting a photo of a list from an advocacy site well good for you but I think I’ll leave it there with you.

Semantics. Gore repeatedly repeated the prediction (which of course turned out to be erroneous, unfounded and a misrepresentation of the science). And yes I agree he is a wally, and a dangerous one at that. A wally who is not deserving of a Nobel gong.

Good, so you finally agree Gore didn’t say what you said he did from deeps list from wattsupwiththat that YOU were asking people to refute in the first place. Which started all this.

You could have saved yourself all the bother if you’d actually read the links you were given yesterday even watched Gore say it on the video provided to you.

Can you read? Gore did say the artic would be ice free in the summer! The nuance is whether *he* predicted it. Point is he repeated the prediction a number of times . The prediction was erroneous of course.

Can you read? gore didn’t say it ‘would’ at all.

There’s no nuance about it, the silly list posted has proven to have spurious (at best) claims on it

There is nuance here and indeed semantics at play. Point is that his claims were erroneous and misrepresented the science. According to the snopes article that one of you posted, in his Nobel acceptance speech he said:

“Last September 21, as the Northern Hemisphere tilted away from the sun, scientists reported with unprecedented distress that the North Polar ice cap is “falling off a cliff.” One study estimated that it could be completely gone during summer in less than 22 years. Another new study, to be presented by U.S. Navy researchers later this week, warns it could happen in as little as 7 years.”

Then he goes on to claim in another speech in 2008: “The entire North polar ice cap may well be completely gone in 5 years.”

In 2009 he said:

“Some of the models suggest to Dr [Wieslav] Maslowski that there is a 75 per cent chance that the entire north polar ice cap, during the summer months, could be completely ice-free within five to seven years.”


On December 15, 2009 the Telegraph reported it thus:

“Speaking at the Copenhagen climate change summit, Mr Gore said new computer modelling suggests there is a 75 per cent chance of the entire polar ice cap melting during the summertime by 2014.
However, he faced embarrassment last night after Dr Wieslav Maslowski, the climatologist whose work the prediction was based on, refuted his claims.
Dr Maslowski, of the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California, told The Times: “It’s unclear to me how this figure was arrived at.
“I would never try to estimate likelihood at anything as exact as this.””

[....]

“His projection strongly contradicted forecasts made eight months ago by the US government agency that the ice cap may nearly vanish in the summer by 2030.
Dr Maslowki said that his latest results give a six-year projection for the melting of 80 per cent of the ice, but he said he expects some ice to remain beyond 2020.
He added: “I was very explicit that we were talking about near-ice-free conditions and not completely ice-free conditions in the northern ocean.”
Following Dr Maslowski’s comments, Mr Gore’s office later said the 75 per cent figure was one used by Dr Maslowksi as a “ballpark figure” several years ago in a conversation with Mr Gore.
Mr Gore’s speech also provoked criticism from leading members of the climate science community, who described the projection as “aggressive”.
Professor Jim Overland, a leading oceanographer at the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, told The Times: “This is an exaggeration that opens the science up to criticism from sceptics.“



So no Al Gore has never suggested an ice free arctic is a possibility. And of course his, and other scientists’ claims, have proven to be false.

[chrispmartha]

All you’re doing is proving your silly list was incorrect and that Al Gore is an idiot, you’ll note I don’t think anyone has been defending Al Gore and him misinterpreting scientists.

[PRTVR]

chrispmartha said:

All you’re doing is proving your silly list was incorrect and that Al Gore is an idiot, you’ll note I don’t think anyone has been defending Al Gore and him misinterpreting scientists.

Are you saying the whole list is wrong ?
Al Gore received the Nobel peace prize for his work on climate change, surely we should have more faith in experts.

[anonymous-user]

PRTVR said:

chrispmartha said:

All you’re doing is proving your silly list was incorrect and that Al Gore is an idiot, you’ll note I don’t think anyone has been defending Al Gore and him misinterpreting scientists.

Are you saying the whole list is wrong ?
Al Gore received the Nobel peace prize for his work on climate change, surely we should have more faith in experts.

How can we check? It doesn’t say who made the comments or where or when they were made.

At least when turbobloke misrepresents Scientists and their papers we can look it up or ask the scientists, as has often happened and see he’s misrepresented them. Even when deeps posts fake news we can check the image.

This is just a vague list of predictions, the one Diderot was banging on about was inaccurate and not even made by gore.

[Diderot]

chrispmartha said:

All you’re doing is proving your silly list was incorrect and that Al Gore is an idiot, you’ll note I don’t think anyone has been defending Al Gore and him misinterpreting scientists.

Wasn’t my ‘silly’ list - I didn’t post it. I was just demonstrating that people like Stovey laughing at it and dismissing it out of hand because it originated on WUWT was misguided. And, as is patently clear and unequivocal, Al Gore did make claims about the arctic being ice free during the summer by the early 2010s. Didn’t happen of course but there’s no surprise there. And yes I agree he is an idiot, but sadly one who has had huge influence on the MMGW narrative. He did the damage by misrepresenting scholarship; plenty of sheep prepare to swallow his exaggerations and spin hook line and sinker.

In many respects the parallel today is the tripe spouted by Attenborough which once again is not borne out by the science. No matter because the damage is also already done as there are plenty of simpletons ready to swallow what he says without question and so-called journalists ready to print whatever falls out of his mouth.

[anonymous-user]

Diderot said:

Wasn’t my ‘silly’ list - I didn’t post it. I was just demonstrating that people like Stovey laughing at it and dismissing it out of hand because it originated on WUWT was misguided.

It wasn’t misguided, it hasn’t stood up to basic scrutiny, as you’ve found, despite constantly trying to defend it.

Deeps posted it after posting the fake news photo. It’s turned out to be equally reliable.

Do you think WUWT is a reliable source of information?

[Diderot]

El stovey said:

PRTVR said:

chrispmartha said:

All you’re doing is proving your silly list was incorrect and that Al Gore is an idiot, you’ll note I don’t think anyone has been defending Al Gore and him misinterpreting scientists.

Are you saying the whole list is wrong ?
Al Gore received the Nobel peace prize for his work on climate change, surely we should have more faith in experts.

How can we check? It doesn’t say who made the comments or where or when they were made.

At least when turbobloke misrepresents Scientists and their papers we can look it up or ask the scientists, as has often happened and see he’s misrepresented them. Even when deeps posts fake news we can check the image.

This is just a vague list of predictions, the one Diderot was banging on about was inaccurate and not even made by gore.

Gore did make such erroneous proclamations. You can read them.

Many of the later items on that list are well known to those who have been following this jamboree for a few decades and can be attributed to a single source; many of them - like claims about peak oil - can’t because they are different propositions and are part of widely held views. Indeed the concept of peak oil has been bandied about for decades. For example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellynch/2018/06/...

“A decade ago, the media was filled with stories about peak oil, numerous books were published on the subject (such as Half Gone and $20 a Gallon!), and even the Simpsons mentioned it in an episode about doomsday preppers. Now, the topic is largely forgotten and the flavor of the month is peak oil demand. Anyone concerned about the quality of research that works its way into the public debate should be curious about how so many were so wrong for so long. (Buy my book for the full story.)

First and foremost, realize that in the 1970s, numerous analysts and institutions made similar arguments, arguing that geological scarcity was responsible for higher prices not the two disruptions of production in 1973 and 1979.”

[PRTVR]

El stovey said:

PRTVR said:

chrispmartha said:

All you’re doing is proving your silly list was incorrect and that Al Gore is an idiot, you’ll note I don’t think anyone has been defending Al Gore and him misinterpreting scientists.

Are you saying the whole list is wrong ?
Al Gore received the Nobel peace prize for his work on climate change, surely we should have more faith in experts.

How can we check? It doesn’t say who made the comments or where or when they were made.

At least when turbobloke misrepresents Scientists and their papers we can look it up or ask the scientists, as has often happened and see he’s misrepresented them. Even when deeps posts fake news we can check the image.

This is just a vague list of predictions, the one Diderot was banging on about was inaccurate and not even made by gore.

I posted one that was attributed to Dr Viner, Head of CRU, I actually watched him make the claim on the BBC, now no doubt if contacted he will deny it, but there are enough newspapers that picked up on the comment to invalidate any denials made.
Where are the contradictions if the news reports were wrong, scientists should be up in arms having been misrepresented , it would be a big thing surely? I have searched but I am unable to find any retractions.