The Wasted Vote

[AJS-]

Wombat3 said:

Farage is a loose cannon and therefore a liability. SImple enough?

It's an opinion. But it still doesn't actually say anything specific about how you think the UK would lose out in negotiations under Farage.

[The Black Flash]

Wombat3 said:

The Black Flash said:

Wombat3 said:

Negotiation of a reduction in the EU budget

...but we're still paying more, so exactly what did he gain for us? Oh knack all, that's it.

Wombat3 said:

A commitment to a referendum on the EU

"Manifesto pledges are not subject to legitimate expectation".
I'll believe it when I see it. There's no way that any of the main parties will ever allow a referendum if there is the chance of an "out" vote. No way.

We are paying more because the tt Blair gave away part of the rebate (in return for stuff we never got) & about now is when that kicks in. Otherwise the EU budget is being cut, for the first time ever. That's not to say its not still far too big, but FFS give credit where its due!

Yeah yeah, it's all Blair's fault, and the other lot say it's all Thatcher's fault.
The bottom line is, our contributions are going up, again. Not what I'd call a victory.

Wombat3 said:

Beleieve what you like as to whether they will deliver a referendum. If something like that is promised and not delivered I'd be first in the queue to lynch 'em.

The EU will never allow it. Witness all previous referenda, particularly Ireland's experience. Even if Cameron wants to give people a say - and his behaviour around this has given me no cause to believe that he does - it's one of those strategy decisions, not one based on any sort of belief - the dead hand of the EU and all of its little wizards will scupper him. He hasn't the strength or conviction.

[Wombat3]

The Black Flash said:

Wombat3 said:

The Black Flash said:

Wombat3 said:

Negotiation of a reduction in the EU budget

...but we're still paying more, so exactly what did he gain for us? Oh knack all, that's it.

Wombat3 said:

A commitment to a referendum on the EU

"Manifesto pledges are not subject to legitimate expectation".
I'll believe it when I see it. There's no way that any of the main parties will ever allow a referendum if there is the chance of an "out" vote. No way.

We are paying more because the tt Blair gave away part of the rebate (in return for stuff we never got) & about now is when that kicks in. Otherwise the EU budget is being cut, for the first time ever. That's not to say its not still far too big, but FFS give credit where its due!

Yeah yeah, it's all Blair's fault, and the other lot say it's all Thatcher's fault.
The bottom line is, our contributions are going up, again. Not what I'd call a victory.

Wombat3 said:

Beleieve what you like as to whether they will deliver a referendum. If something like that is promised and not delivered I'd be first in the queue to lynch 'em.

The EU will never allow it. Witness all previous referenda, particularly Ireland's experience. Even if Cameron wants to give people a say - and his behaviour around this has given me no cause to believe that he does - it's one of those strategy decisions, not one based on any sort of belief - the dead hand of the EU and all of its little wizards will scupper him. He hasn't the strength or conviction.

We will have to agree to disagree on the latter - and with the former, the facts are in the public domain as to what happened with our rebate.

[Wombat3]

AJS- said:

Wombat3 said:

Farage is a loose cannon and therefore a liability. SImple enough?

It's an opinion. But it still doesn't actually say anything specific about how you think the UK would lose out in negotiations under Farage.

You are getting to the "boring" point with this now.

Send a loose cannon into a negotiation about anything, chances are you will come of worst.

Done with this particular crap now.

[AJS-]

Wombat3 said:

You are getting to the "boring" point with this now.

Send a loose cannon into a negotiation about anything, chances are you will come of worst.

Done with this particular crap now.

Yeah I thought so. No answer then.

[Wombat3]

AJS- said:

Wombat3 said:

You are getting to the "boring" point with this now.

Send a loose cannon into a negotiation about anything, chances are you will come of worst.

Done with this particular crap now.

Yeah I thought so. No answer then.

You've had your answer, you clearly understand what I am saying, you are simply being obtuse.

Further debate with you on this is therefore pointless.

As is often said, argue with an idiot and they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

QED

[Einion Yrth]

Wombat3 said:

AJS- said:

Wombat3 said:

You are getting to the "boring" point with this now.

Send a loose cannon into a negotiation about anything, chances are you will come of worst.

Done with this particular crap now.

Yeah I thought so. No answer then.

You've had your answer, you clearly understand what I am saying, you are simply being obtuse.

Further debate with you on this is therefore pointless.

As is often said, argue with an idiot and they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

QED

You just bent the needle on my irony meter.

[rudecherub]

"The general election of 1922 saw Churchill lose his seat in parliament. He had been too ill (with a appendicitis) to effectively campaign and he was generally viewed as something of a warmonger and loose cannon."

[Wombat3]

Einion Yrth said:

Wombat3 said:

AJS- said:

Wombat3 said:

You are getting to the "boring" point with this now.

Send a loose cannon into a negotiation about anything, chances are you will come of worst.

Done with this particular crap now.

Yeah I thought so. No answer then.

You've had your answer, you clearly understand what I am saying, you are simply being obtuse.

Further debate with you on this is therefore pointless.

As is often said, argue with an idiot and they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

QED

You just bent the needle on my irony meter.

And you clearly can't read. He asked me what I meant, I told him. End.

[eharding]

AJS- said:

It's an opinion. But it still doesn't actually say anything specific about how you think the UK would lose out in negotiations under Farage.

Who do you propose that Farage would have with him in the negotiating team?

International negotiations are invariably huge team efforts, inevitable given the minute scrutiny of detail and background work required.

At least 95% of the talking is done before the principals ever get into a room face-to-face.

Who, for example, is the current UKIP Foreign Affairs spokesman?

[Einion Yrth]

Wombat3 said:

And you clearly can't read. He asked me what I meant, I told him. End.

'Kinell that's the second busted irony meter in as many posts.

[Mon Ami Mate]

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/UKIP-Bristol-branch...

[McWigglebum4th]

Still waiting for the answer of why i should vote tory

[eharding]

Mon Ami Mate said:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/UKIP-Bristol-branch...

I'm not saying he was attracted to the UKIP because of the dress code....but he seems to like black shirts.

What a charming individual.

[eharding]

McWigglebum4th said:

Still waiting for the answer of why i should vote tory

Well, if you want to achieve an Eastleigh result - to have the Tories banished into a humiliating 3rd place - then perhaps your best bet in West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine would be to vote for the SNP? UKIP had rather a poor showing last time round - the BNP were more popular in fact.

Voting for one bunch of opportunistic nationalists can't be that much different from any other, surely?

[rudecherub]

eharding said:

Mon Ami Mate said:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/UKIP-Bristol-branch...

I'm not saying he was attracted to the UKIP because of the dress code....but he seems to like black shirts.

What a charming individual.

So UKIP expels a man for views which don't reflect party policy. Good for them.

Meanwhile... http://order-order.com/2013/03/05/david-ward-four-...

[eharding]

rudecherub said:

So UKIP expels a man for views which don't reflect party policy. Good for them.

Rather like wildly applauding Tesco for removing horse-meat from the lasagne, rather than demanding to know why their quality control was so crashingly poor as to allow it in there in the first place.

Much like the lasagne, it won't take too many incidents of this sort before people start wondering what the hell else is lurking about in there that hasn't slithered out into the sunlight yet.

[eharding]

einsign said:

Being negative towards someone or something is just about the easiest thing in the world to do, it seems to be the approach to everything these days.

Give that man a pie. He's finally realised what UKIP are all about.

[rudecherub]

eharding said:

rudecherub said:

So UKIP expels a man for views which don't reflect party policy. Good for them.

Rather like wildly applauding Tesco for removing horse-meat from the lasagne, rather than demanding to know why their quality control was so crashingly poor as to allow it in there in the first place.

Much like the lasagne, it won't take too many incidents of this sort before people start wondering what the hell else is lurking about in there that hasn't slithered out into the sunlight yet.

Well UKIP are human beings, and like the people in the other parties, and here on PH, and any where in the whole wide world, thus like any sample of people, there will be examples of kinds of folk, good bad and indifferent.

What matters is the response of those in charge when something is found to be wrong. UKIP are fast responders to this kind of thing, they are not however mind readers.

and TBH There are worse insults in life, than to be compared to the multinational and very profitable business that is Tesco, much like the up-thread loose cannon jibe, these are insults that on reflection are not that insulting.

You need to try harder.

[eharding]

rudecherub said:

Well UKIP are human beings, and like the people in the other parties, and here on PH, and any where in the whole wide world, thus like any sample of people, there will be examples of kinds of folk, good bad and indifferent.

What matters is the response of those in charge when something is found to be wrong. UKIP are fast responders to this kind of thing, they are not however mind readers.

and TBH There are worse insults in life, than to be compared to the multinational and very profitable business that is Tesco, much like the up-thread loose cannon jibe, these are insults that on reflection are not that insulting.

You need to try harder.

Clearly rattled, then. Tesco employee, perhaps?

The question remains - what sort of party lets that sort rubbish into the ranks in the first place?

What sort of vetting process was applied before he was allowed to stand as a UKIP candidate?